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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#46451: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:25:58 AM

The only way to alter the 2nd Amendment, the 14th Amendment, or any other part of the Constitution is to amend the Constitution. There is no other way. You can't pass laws negating the Constitution.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46452: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:26:36 AM

[up][up] Eh, it doesn't really work that way.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:26:46 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#46453: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:30:05 AM

And changing the constitution needs 2/3 of each House and 3/4 of all states. Not going to happen over such a small issue.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#46454: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:31:37 AM

So if that law is passed, the Supreme Court could rule it unconstitutional really really quickly, right?

Well, nothing the Supreme Court does is done "quickly", since, before they can hear a case, it has to be appealed up through all the lower courts first.

As for Americans not being willing to do the sort of agricultural work that illegal immigrants do: you can get a lot of people to do almost any kind of work so long as it pays well enough. If the food industry can't attract legitimate workers, then they just need to start paying people more. Unfortunately, that means the price of food will go up, but that's no excuse for underpaying workers.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:32:24 AM by RavenWilder

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46455: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:32:34 AM

GOP: "Protect the Constitution, protect the 2nd amendment"

Latinos: "What about the 14th amendment?"

GOP: "AMENESTY OMG!!! WE NEED DRONES IN THE BORDER, ANCHOR BABIES!!"

[up] There is this fallacy that the Supreme Court is the only one that rules. A federal judge could easily strike it down and the court of appeals could do the same.

[up][up]

Yea. I mean why bother when you can deport their parents? Another thing our merciful president Obama is excellent at.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:35:14 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#46456: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:39:10 AM

A federal statute would be appealed at the federal court level, not the state level. SCOTUS would probably not even bother hearing the case, as the law would have gotten overturned in the very first appellate court to consider it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#46457: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:41:01 AM

@Kostya: thats generally how other countries do it. Quite a few women in eastern europe get their US Citizenship by agreeing to be wives for men with money and zero social skills. Then the second they get their green card and whatnot, the marriages tend to end.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46458: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:42:14 AM

Conservative add, but true nontheless.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:42:48 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#46459: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:44:44 AM

[up] The problem being, while that may be true, at least he deports them. The Conservatives do themselves no favors when they advocate self-deportation based on suffering or armed guards at the borders to shoot mexicans.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46460: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:46:41 AM

[up]

Self deportation is more humane. It implies that they wont get a job because they dont have the paperwork and will go back, More humane than arresting someone in the street and tearing a family apart.

IN fact when it comes to immigration certain republicans, especially those from Texas (including Bush, Rick Perry, and Ginrich) have been more principled than the vast mayority of democrats.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:47:25 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#46461: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:47:57 AM

[up]

More humane? it implies they'll somehow be able to survive a return trip unaided across a border that is largely inhospitable desert terrain because theyre starving to death here.

and Rick perry got castigated by other conservatives for his compassion.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:48:24 AM by Midgetsnowman

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46462: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:49:58 AM

[up]

It still by far more humane than picking people off the street, arresting them, and deporting them.

I almost got deported once from Japan (problem with the visa) It was a horrible experience (in the end I wasnt).

edited 6th Jan '13 11:50:44 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#46463: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:51:21 AM

You have an odd definition of humane, then. I personally think picking them off the street and at least giving them a ride back to the border slightly more humane than giving zero shits about if they can feed themselves in the hope it'll convince them to leave on their own.

and woul you have preferred the entirety of japan not give you food, water, or money and hope you had the ability to build a boat yourself to leave?

edited 6th Jan '13 11:51:56 AM by Midgetsnowman

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46464: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:52:05 AM

[up]

I dont think YOU understand what being persecuted and feeling persecuted means.

Besides in self deportation anyone who turn themselves in would still get a ride to the border, which is shit anyhow because its not like if Mexico isnt a big place, specially with how freaking desolated Northern Mexico is.

Our system is so bad we actually deport American people by mistake.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:53:20 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#46465: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:53:56 AM

Arresting illegals led to problems in France when they started putting cops at the exits of schools to arrest illegal fathers picking up their kids: This caused a lot of people to stop bringing their kids to school, leaving them uneducated Free-Range Children.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46466: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:54:13 AM

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#46467: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:54:28 AM

[up] My father is from mexico city. I live in a highly white, homogenous, midwest rural part of the country. I cant go a week without hearing someone make a crack about lazy latinos who need to be thrown across the border.

Guess who from? Generally the local Tea party.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46468: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:54:32 AM

So making a person's life a living hell is more humane than giving them a free ride to the border? News to me.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46469: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:55:01 AM

Things are gettin a wee bit too personal in here.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46470: Jan 6th 2013 at 11:56:12 AM

Its better to have a person not being able to work and then self deporting, than having them be actively hunted and deported.

I invite you to ask any illigal immigrant you might now about what they would prefer. Not being able to work legally (which they already cant do) or be deported on record numbers.

I wonder how much of this discussion arises from a desire to defend president's Obama terrible track record.

edited 6th Jan '13 11:59:12 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#46471: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:03:41 PM

The choice is one between being hunted by a single entity and being vagrant without recourse. Neither of these states are pleasant and trying to compare them seems somewhat silly. I can say without out doubt that neither is a fun situation, but that I don't think one is better than the other.

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#46472: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:11:06 PM

It seems that we're playing some kind of weird game of "Whose deplorable, dehumanizing hardship is worse". Can we just agree that deportation sucks?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46473: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:11:23 PM

[up][up]

In one of them you are unemployed, in the other one your dad goes to buy groceries and doesnt return.

[up] Perhaps, but it a real life choice that the political parties are offering. They suck, but one is better than the other.

edited 6th Jan '13 12:12:32 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#46474: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:21:07 PM

@Baff: Your perspective is...bizarre, to say the least. Illegal immigrants, by virtue of the name, broke the law. It's totally justified to deport them. I don't see how you can possible think that's worse than baseless persecution.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46475: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:21:33 PM

For the record, self-deportation doesn't necessarily mean that government mandated deportation isn't also concurrently in effect.

[up] Legally justified. I would recommend not using "It's the law ergo it's right" as part of an argument.

edited 6th Jan '13 12:23:20 PM by TheyCallMeTomu


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