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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46126: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:11:21 PM

The Republicans have no ability to pass legislation. And as much as Obama wants to be Captain Centrist, and the Republicans will tie repeal of Obamacare to the debt ceiling (as a worst case scenario), I don't really see them as having the power to repeal it before 2014.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46127: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:12:45 PM

I honestly think most people are tired of hearing the Health care debate by now, so I think trying to tie it to the debt ceiling debate will only annoy people.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46128: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:12:46 PM

@Ace: Okay, what could it take to fulfill this seemingly herculean task, then?

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:14:34 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46129: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:13:45 PM

A massive cultural shift in which the people elect politicians willing to vote on restructuring the government. Which is probably not going to happen soon.

Not that it's impossible. But it's more likely to happen on a state level rather than the Federal level.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:14:16 PM by AceofSpades

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46130: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:15:19 PM

So we may need a Second Civil War to jumpstart things, then? Gah, how complicated.

On a side note, what became of the ACTA/CISPA/whatevertheyrecallitnow thing? It seems to have died off over the past year despite apparent threats/asserations from Senators that they are far from done with it, despite the mass protests.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46131: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:15:54 PM

Can't state governments refuse to fund Obamacare though? They're already opting out of the medicaid expansion.

[up]Given the way some people are talking a second civil war isn't too far fetched.

It died down after being crushed. They'll probably spring it on us later when they think we're distracted.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:16:45 PM by Kostya

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46132: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:16:19 PM

Plus, most people are too afraid of the Spoiler effect to vote for a third party.

[up][up] Considering the First Civil War failed to destroy the 2-Party System, I see no reason why a second one would succeed.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:19:45 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46133: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:19:57 PM

Perry's decision to take away funding from Planned Parenthood is meeting with some backlash. In any case, the exchange thing is just a database to help compare different health care companies, right? Doesn't seem like it would be that expensive to run as compared to other government expenditures.

Also, Marq, let's not talk about a second civil war. It's highly unlikely to happen. For one, the ones that would actually be for it aren't in the military, mostly, and don't have the kind of resources or support needed to stand up against the government if they try. At best, we'd have homegrown terrorist acts, and I doubt we'll get even that far because most of them are all bark.

Anyway, the whole government would have to collapse, not just have our country go to war.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:20:29 PM by AceofSpades

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46134: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:25:36 PM

Has an incumbent president ever lost renomination before?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46135: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:25:49 PM

[up][up][up]It might change who's in power though.

[up][up]Then why did they object? I assumed they had to provide something in addition to the database. Even if that's all a database is probably expensive to run. It would probably be a better idea to set up a national one and have everyone in the country use it.

[up]Lost or declined to run? I believe the latter has happened but if the former has I haven't heard of it. One of the depression era presidents might have done that but I can't remember who.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:26:30 PM by Kostya

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46136: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:26:07 PM

Not that I know of. Why?

[up]They objected because they're Republicans and the party line was to oppose Planned Parenthood, Obamacare, and any spending on healthcare at all because it's somehow damaging to our freedom to risk our lives. Nevermind that this also covers those who cannot legally consent: Children, mentally disabled, and the senile.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:27:48 PM by AceofSpades

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46137: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:28:34 PM

I wonder if that trend will change.

An incumbent president losing renomination in the primaries, like Carter almost did to Ted Kennedy.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46138: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:31:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]

John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Marin Van Buren, Grover Cleveland, Benjamin Harrison, William Taft, Herbert Hoover, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and George H.W. Bush.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:31:54 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#46139: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:32:11 PM

[up][up]Well, it won't for at least eight more years, I can tell you that for certain.

edited 3rd Jan '13 8:32:34 PM by OhnoaBear

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#46140: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:38:26 PM

[up][up] Party nomination, not the general election.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#46141: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:40:52 PM

@Serocco: Andrew Johnson comes to mind. Though Arthur only half-ran and wasn't nominated.

Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#46142: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:46:13 PM

@Serrocco: LBJ lost big in the New Hampshire primary and dropped out in 1968.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46143: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:55:45 PM

@Serocco,

Incumbent Presidents that lost renomination: Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce and Chester Arthur.

EDIT: I just realized that Fillmore and Arthur both became President through succession, and because of this they were never nominated to be President.

Because of this, Franklin Pierce is the only Incumbent Presidents that ever failed to be renominated.

Andrew Johnson is an odd case. He was nominated for Vice-President by the Republicans in 1864, became President through succession in 1865, and then attempted to get the Democratic Party's nomination for president in 1868 (which he failed to do).

On another note, Martin Van Buren, Ulysses S Grant, and Theodore Roosevelt were all former presidents who tried (and failed) to get renominated by there party. But they were not the Incumbent President at the time of there failed attempt.

[up] LBJ actually won the New Hampshire Primary (if only by a slim margin). I believe your thinking of Harry Truman.

edited 3rd Jan '13 9:21:30 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#46144: Jan 3rd 2013 at 8:58:03 PM

...All of those were in the 1800s...

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46145: Jan 3rd 2013 at 9:11:24 PM

I guess we have more party cohesion now. *shrug*

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46146: Jan 3rd 2013 at 10:44:40 PM

Obama extended the NDAA.

The Senate passed a provision that nullified the indefinite detention of American citizens on American soil, sure, but the House stripped that provision away, so the final bill that Obama signed is the same as it was when he first signed it.

edited 3rd Jan '13 10:50:29 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46147: Jan 3rd 2013 at 10:46:50 PM

Which, as I understand, is still tied to military pay (Or that's the title for the bill that is the military pay) and has also been neutered by our own courts to some extent.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46148: Jan 3rd 2013 at 10:52:10 PM

It shouldn't matter if it's tied to military pay. It allows the military to arrest and detain the average Joe with no trial or due process, indefinitely.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46149: Jan 3rd 2013 at 10:55:11 PM

And it's political suicide to deny the military their pay. Particularly in this climate. Just because you think it doesn't matter doesn't make it the actual reality the president has to deal with.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46150: Jan 3rd 2013 at 10:56:12 PM

It's a "reality" that the President can ignore, because he's the goddamn commander in chief.

And don't buy into the falsehood that the politicians give a damn about the common soldier. Don Rumsfeld initiated a stoplossing policy that kept soldiers from returning from Iraq even after their contracts as soldiers expired.

Plus, most of that money goes to the defense contractors, so spare me that "Think of the military" bullshit.

edited 3rd Jan '13 11:03:20 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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