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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46076: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:45:38 PM

A drone pilot had to quit after he killed a child and his boss said "No, that was a dog".

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:45:54 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46077: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:46:43 PM

Ideally we should lower taxes on everyone and increase spending (I am old school I know)

But I refuse to support a system that taxes the rich more than then rest, proportionally.

Also, higher taxes on the rich in certain sense, if done corectly, can actually stimulate the economy since it takes money that would otherwise remain unspend, and put it back into the economy at large.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46078: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:47:18 PM

[up][up]Where is the dog comment in that article?

[up]Don't your second and third lines contradict each other?

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:48:20 PM by Kostya

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46079: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:47:37 PM

Also, most of the Bush tax cuts were for the rich, not the middle class.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46080: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:49:00 PM

The dog comment can be found on this article, sorry.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46081: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:49:57 PM

Oh yeah, drones causing civilian casualties. That's a very good point, though it seems Obama is leaning on the pragmatic side on this one. Besides, the sad fact is that first-world leaders never seem to concern themselves with "limited" civilian casualties from such military operations in backwater third world countries, no matter how frequent they are, as long as its done by unmanned vehicles and cannot be proven to have been done deliberately or through criminal negligence (and even then, who would prosecute them? How many of the US soldiers who committed serious crimes during the occupation of Iraq had been properly punished?).

A drone pilot had to quit after he killed a child and his boss said "No, that was a dog".
At least someone in that operation has a conscience. There are probably even more stories like that that go unreported for various reasons, perhaps involving covert threats from superiors or the like.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:52:08 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46082: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:52:55 PM

[up] The original report on that story was from a German website, actually.

Only after that did some American websites follow suit.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46083: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:53:44 PM

Serocco: I'm not sure if that was an insult, if the person lied, or if they just didn't realize what they were looking at. I could take that statement a number of ways so I'm not going to immediately assume it's offensive.

Marq: I still don't see how having soldiers around leads to fewer civilian casualties. If anything it would lead to more since the terrorists could hire them to use in attacks or get them caught in the line of fire during attacks.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46084: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:54:34 PM

Having an army of drones do the killing leads to the same result, just on a slightly more meticulous scale.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46085: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:57:58 PM

The estate tax cut repeal actually wasn't pressed very hard by Obama because he'd have problems getting democrats in the senate to sign onto that.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46086: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:58:35 PM

[up] Because the Democrats felt he was giving too much away to the Republicans.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46087: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:59:27 PM

What? No. Because the Democrats have a number of estate holders that are really against a rise in the estate tax. PROGRESSIVES certainly thought he was already giving away too much, but you're confusing the issue.

OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#46088: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:59:45 PM

@Kostya: But when they take money to fight American soldiers, then they stop being civilians and become enemy combatants, don't they?

edited 3rd Jan '13 7:00:10 PM by OhnoaBear

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46089: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:00:34 PM

Oh, that. Right.

Not too long ago, Obama's "Chained CPI" deal would cut Social Security by reining in the cost of living.

When it was revealed to Congress, the Republicans thought it was too extreme an idea.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46090: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:00:50 PM

[up][up] Legitimately, even. Though honestly, it'd probably be cheaper for us to just pay people to not fight us.

edited 3rd Jan '13 7:01:20 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46091: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:02:41 PM

@Kostya.

Well, my rudementary economic knowladge comes from my Introduction to Economics course and my Economic course.

So, according to Keynesian tought we should put more money into the economy when we are in a recession and take money out of the econmy when there is too much inflation (I know this is not a very detailed explanation).

So, in a recession or a near recession like the one we are in right now, the ideal thing should be to put more money into the economy and foster inflation. To do this goverments will usually, trough monetary policy, lower ibntersts rates and pritn money (sell government debt), and trough fiscal policy will embark in large scale public spending. As an aditional measure, taxes should be lowered in order for people to have more money to spend.

Now, when you take a poor or a middle class person, where in many instances I am sure you will be aware they dont save their money. If they want a Tv they buy it even if the have to go on debt to do so. As a result all the money that they receive goes back into the economy and this is generally seen as a good thing (do it will eventually destroy the world, thank you capitalism!).

Rich people are different because, a mayority of them actually have a lot of money saved up. This is called liquidity if I am correct. This meaning that they have actual cash in the bank (fun fact, only 7% of the world's cash is in paper, the rest is electronic).

So a rich person doesnt spends all his income but actually saves a part of it (and the richer he is, the more he well tend to save in proporsion to what he takes in).

So what happens to all his money that is left there in the bank? Well nothing happens. They get money from the interests the banks pay them. If there is a deflation the money the rich people have becomes more valuable (if they dont have it in the bank of course) and if there is inflation all the money the rich people have (weather is in the bank or not) becomes less valuable (but if the rich have a lot of assets then they will also benefit, in other words, its very easy to stay rich once you are rich). This is why the rich people hate inflation more than normal people would even do it would appear that it would affect everybody in the same measure.

Now if you tax people and then spend the money you raise from said revenue, then your actually taking that money which is stagnant and putting it back in the economy, so even if the rich people cut back on their spending because of the tax hikes the economy is still getting stimulated (this will only happen in certain situations do).

This is why its more important to cut taxes on poorer people than on the rich, because if you tax the poor more and then spend their money you arent stimulating the economy, with all the negative effects higehr taxation entails, where as if you tax the rich, this negative effects basically come down to a lot of fancy people complaining.

So if the rich dont spend their money, you sort of have to spend it for them (I think I heard a million republican screams go off in my head at once).

edited 3rd Jan '13 7:08:39 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46092: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:03:06 PM

Politico posted a pretty compelling article that delves a bit deeper into Obama's mindset,

At its core, they revealed a quote confirming that he's most concerned about appearing bipartisan and/or centrist over all else.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46093: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:03:51 PM

I wasn't thinking in terms of money. I was thinking about the people that they blackmailed into strapping bombs to their chest. I can't think of any specific examples but I recall hearing about that sort of thing.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46094: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:04:05 PM

It is definitely true that Obama's first and foremost concern seems to be being perceived as a centrist. He's not a real progressive by any stretch of the imagination (aside from, you know, social issues, where he's semi-almost kind of progressive).

edited 3rd Jan '13 7:04:27 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46095: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:06:30 PM

Got to give credit to Obama for his stance on gay rights.

But I mean, that is a dead giveaway now that the polls show that a mayority of Americans favour gay rights.

Nontheless, I give credit where credit is do.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46096: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:06:41 PM

Marq: I still don't see how having soldiers around leads to fewer civilian casualties. If anything it would lead to more since the terrorists could hire them to use in attacks or get them caught in the line of fire during attacks.
I didn't say they should replace the drones with more soldiers on the ground. By "very good point" I was referring to the now en mass application of drone strikes on its own, disconnected from whether it led to decreasing the number of ground troops on the frontlines.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46097: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:16:28 PM

Estate taxes will be set at 40% with a 5 million dollar exemption. With Bush, estate taxes were 35%. As soon as it expired on January 1st, it went up to 55%.

Thanks to Obama's deal, the estate taxes were cut from 55% to 40%, and those who make 5 million+ are exempt from estate taxes.

No, people whose estate is worth 5 million or less are exempt from the estate tax.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46098: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:16:52 PM

Remember Baehner's disastrous Plan B idea?

He actually told Obama about it before it was revealed to Congress. Baehner admitted that he didn't expect Plan B the Senate. He figured that it would've been downgraded to about 500,000 instead of 1 million.

That happened almost exactly as Baehner thought it would. It was knocked down to 450,000, which was implemented in the final Fiscal Cliff deal.

Obama, perplexed by the secret idea, told Baehner if he shared Plan B with Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi, suggesting that they might've helped him into making Plan B. Baehner said no.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46099: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:19:08 PM

It's true that Obama's deal instituted a series of tax cuts that otherwise wouldn't have occurred. In large part, because tax cuts on working class families are stimulative, and of course because the Fiscal Cliff wasn't just about taxes, it was also about other programs like unemployment insurance.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46100: Jan 3rd 2013 at 7:20:19 PM

If tax cuts on the middle class work, show the proof. The cold, hard, statistical proof.

Also, that last comment of mine pretty much proved that the fiscal cliff drama was fake.

edited 3rd Jan '13 7:21:49 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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