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Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46051: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:26:12 PM

Hence why Congress is after Manning and Assange.

That stuff is very damaging to Congress' image.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46052: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:30:45 PM

[up]

More like, the whole government.

And this is the reason why people dont get Aljaazera in the States, because they actually report this sort of stuff.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46053: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:36:12 PM

If you want to claim something like Manning was tortured, you're going to have to provide proof, Baff. Otherwise it's just shit someone's making up.

Anyway, they did leak classified documents, the both of them. It's not a surprise that the US is after them, because it's damned embarrassing for a leak to happen at all. And that it's illegal to disseminate this information, and that Manning violated his various loyalty oaths. Not to mention that Assange is basically threatening people. (Kind of impotently, since if he releases the wrong information he could quickly turn public opinion against him.)

Anyway, we're getting Al Jazeera now. Current TV was also reporting on this kind of thing, so their mission statements are pretty similar. Seems a natural alliance, really. After being dropped by Time Warner it's probably going to be a bit difficult to find a new channel, but TYT started out on the internet. There's something Al Jazeera could possibly learn from their experience, I think.

edited 3rd Jan '13 5:37:06 PM by AceofSpades

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46054: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:44:51 PM

[up]

Here: [1] (This is what happens when you challenge stablished narrative, you have to provide sourcee after source, what are your sources about Asagne treatening people and how is that relevant?)

And even if he broke his oath is not like he deserved his treatment (Oliver Northon broke his oath, committed high treason, and now his at Fox News).

Also, Aljaazera has been trying (and failing to) get distributed in the united States for almost 10 years now, besides being labelled as a terrorist organization by Bush officials. The United States not only bombed, Al Jaazera but open a news channel in Saudi Arabia just to have competition against said channel (Al Hurra).

And what does TYT have to do with anything? Its not like TYT doesnt get distributed in the United States because there is a boycott against it.

edited 3rd Jan '13 5:50:17 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#46055: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:46:45 PM

The bombings of al-Jazeera offices were probably at least partially in retaliation to al-Jazeera's broadcasting of the famous tapes of Osama bin Laden that we've probably all seen.

I saw a feature on al-Jazeera about what the story of those tapes was. Apparently they kept finding tapes that someone had placed at the door to their studio (or some such location where they won't miss the packages) and each tape had a note telling that the studio, as well as reporters' homes, would be bombed if those tapes weren't shown on al-Jazeera.

I believe that al-Qaida would actually do this to a news network. It's nowhere near the worst shit they've done, and IMO al-Jazeera are innocent in this if their story is true.

But anyway, this is only tangentially related to current US politics so I'll leave it at that.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46056: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:49:25 PM

[up]

And even if the story wherent true, they had the right to show those tapes.

I mean, why do we even have journalist for?

And this is why (Ill repeat it) we dont get Al Jaazera in the US.

There is a lot of censorship in America, sophisticated, but abundant censorship and manipulation of the news.

edited 3rd Jan '13 5:49:43 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46057: Jan 3rd 2013 at 5:56:26 PM

Imagine if they treated Woodward, Bernstein and Mark Felt that way. Imagine if Nixon arrested those three and tortured them for reporting on Watergate.

Now, when we tortured Manning (psychologically) and demonized Assange, just as many people claim they had it coming, or that we didn't torture Manning.

In exchange for transparency, the law falls silent, if you ask me.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:02:26 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#46058: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:04:19 PM

I'm getting the strongest sense of deja vu from this particular derail.

Anyway, I wonder what exactly al-Jazeera wants to broadcast on American TV. It is, at heart, and Arabian news channel. Obviously that's of great use in covering stories and issues involving that part of the world, but I don't think they can complete as a 24-hour news channel in America when their focus is very much not-America. So what's their plan for broadcasting in this part of the world?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46059: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:13:52 PM

For clarification, the tax cuts expired on January 1st. The entire fiscal cliff deal had renewed the tax cuts. In fact, they're now largely permanent - we cannot change it anymore.

When we cut taxes, we lost jobs, under Bush. When we raised taxes under Clinton, we gained jobs. Tax cuts do not work in gaining jobs, and yet, they're now permanent.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:15:06 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#46060: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:15:44 PM

Al-Jazeera covers the whole world these days, even though their focus definitely is the Middle East. The English service that we get has had programmes on the US elections, the economies of India and China, and so on. I've seen programmes about Brazil and South Africa but I don't remember what they were about. (They didn't happen to be very interesting to me but the point is that al-Jazeera does coverage and special features about news and current topics all over the world.)

The claim that you don't get al-Jazeera in the US isn't entirely correct, BTW. According to Wikipedia's page on al-Jazeera, certain satellite networks in the US include the English service of al-Jazeera in their channel packages. But almost everyone has cable, right? Only a few states have al-Jazeera on cable.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#46061: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:16:56 PM

Probably to broadcast to the millions of people of middle-eastern decent news that's going on back in their homeland. After all, there are Chinese news channels, Central American news channels, British news channels, Caribbean news channels, Korean news channels... and those are just a few of the ones on my TV.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46062: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:19:47 PM

Carried interest is the income that private equity and hedge fund managers make. Carried interest not investment money - it's normal income. It's what they earn from their regular work.

Thanks to Obama's deal, the hedge fund managers and private equity will only pay 20%, instead of 39.6%, like it was back with Clinton.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46063: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:24:51 PM

This may be a rather pointless question to you guys, but I have to ask: Why the hell did John McCain explicitly state time and again in his 2008 election campaign that he's going to continue G.W. Bush's policies and essentially follow in his footsteps? When I heard that back then, my mind locked up in incredulity while wondering if he's gone nuts, because it should've been clear that such a proclamation would be political suicide, what with how the Bush administration's popularity had extremely plummeted once the recession hit full swing and it was quickly becoming clear that the War On Terror was far from the "justified preemptive war for the sake of protecting the people" that the government claimed it was.

To this day, his actions in that election continue to baffle me.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:26:16 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46064: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:25:00 PM

Serocco, you're oversimplfying things tremendously. The tax cuts on high income earners certainly were not stimulative-significantly less so than if we had used that money for, say, food stamps or what have you-but to then dismiss that all tax cuts are inherently unstimulative is overstating your case.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46065: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:26:02 PM

Estate taxes will be set at 40% with a 5 million dollar exemption. With Bush, estate taxes were 35%. As soon as it expired on January 1st, it went up to 55%.

Thanks to Obama's deal, the estate taxes were cut from 55% to 40%, and those who make 5 million+ are exempt from estate taxes.

Norquist himself said that we're actually cutting taxes because they had expired on January 1st. They were raised on that day, and they were cut on that day.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:27:56 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46066: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:26:48 PM

Actually now that I remember there was a very heavy campaign to have Al Jaazera banned from the United States... and it worked.

Sorta. The network suffered a backlash due to the strong anti-Arab sentiment of post 9/11, and after some low level officials in the Bush Administration claimed Al-Jazeera was an arm of al-Qaida for running videotaped statements from Osama bin Laden and his aides.

As Time Warner proves, Cable Corporations are usually a fearful lot who try to avoid controversy. Because of this very few showed interest in the now controversial Al-Jazeera.

However legally no ban was ever placed on Al-Jazeera, and the station could still be viewed on cable (if you lived in Washington D.C. or the cities of Toledo, Sandusky,n Houston, Burlington, or New York City). Or if you had satellite TV.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:28:32 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46067: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:30:39 PM

If Obama is any indication, it doesn't matter how unpopular Bush's policies were. They will remain and they will be mainstreamed, at least regarding drone strikes and tax cuts.

Yeah, McCain was a cook, and he lost because he was the same as Bush, but Obama's doing the same stuff as Bush, except he's mainstreaming those policies and intensifying them, like the tax cuts and drone strikes.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:31:19 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46068: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:33:09 PM

Marq FJA: Many Republicans still think Bush did good things and didn't want the Democrats to screw everything up. He was probably pandering to them at the cost of the independents which is likely why he lost. It's kind of like what damned Romney only it wasn't as severe.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46069: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:34:30 PM

Yeah, McCain was a cook, and he slot because he was the same old same old, but Obama's doing the same stuff as Bush, except he's mainstreaming those policies and intensifying them, like the tax cuts and drone strikes.
How much of his policies/decision involved mainstreaming Bush-era ones and how much were stuff that neither he nor the Republicans would've touched with a 10-foot-pole? IIRC the republican candidates' proposed solutions to the economic crisis were far from stellar, and were more or less exclusive with Obama's approach once he got into office.

[up] You'd think they'd learn when that didn't work for their predecessors over the past century. Wait, what am I saying? Of course they'd go "It's different now! We're different from them, and our ideas are obviously the best and most feasible!" Almost all politicians did and do that at some point, past, present, and probably future too.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:37:39 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46070: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:37:26 PM

I can think of two policies off the top of my head that Obama is mainstreaming.

The tax cuts, which are now permanent, and the drone strikes, which are now being used en masse.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46071: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:39:24 PM

Serocco the tax cuts are not all permanent. Some are, true, but a lot of people are getting their taxes raised. Stop acting like nobody is.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46072: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:40:02 PM

[up] I just mentioned a number of the tax cuts that were made permanent. Those aren't being raise any any means.

About 98 percent of the Bush tax cuts were retained and made permanent, according to Huffington Post.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:41:35 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#46073: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:40:59 PM

The tax cuts, which are now permanent, and the drone strikes, which are now being used en masse.
IINM, the new tax cuts exclude the most wealthy ranks of US society. And aren't drone strikes more of a pragmatic decision from a military POV rather than a trait of Republican ideology? He is trying to wrap up ASAP the muddy swamp that the Afghan war on Taliban and AQ has become to bring the troops home, just like he did with the ones that were in Iraq.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#46074: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:42:49 PM

[up] I just mentioned the tax cuts that benefit the rich. Estate taxes. Carried interests. Also dividends that I didn't mention earlier.

Plus, the drone strikes have killed children on our watch. We had a discussion about it when Carrington killed three kids that were digging up dung so they can keep their families warm.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:44:02 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46075: Jan 3rd 2013 at 6:43:21 PM

[up][up][up]Yes because most of them shouldn't be raised. Of course 98% are permanent, the rich only account for about 2% of the population.

[up][up]They are but unfortunately they have a habit of attacking civilians. I'm still unconvinced that the number of casualties would be lower if we didn't invade though.

[up]While I am not excusing the fact that it happened I should point out that there was more to it than "Whee, let's blow up some kids!"

Children have been used to plant roadside bombs before.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:44:11 PM by Kostya


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