Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yes. Whether you agreed with republicans or not(and I do for the most part) the fact is that he is a terrible leader and representative for the republican party and folds like a wet paper towel. The man can't stand up for himself to save his life.
@ Thorn: some conservatives have made the analogy about Chris Christie was that he should have reached out his hand and shook Obama's, It was a crisis after all. But that it was more like he french kissed Obama with wild abandon as everyone looked on.
“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”While that is true, I would like to point at 2 things. 1. The American right associates Nazism with Leftist ideology as much as the American left associates the right with Nazism (and lets not go into that discussion anyhow because of Godwin's Law.)
And 2. That the Democrats RUN, they CLAIM to be, leftist. They dont say it, but their policy proposals are definetly left leaning.
But then they get elected and dont fufill their promises. They only pretend to fight for them and are only to happy to "compromise" when given a chance, even if that implies loosing a political battles, which is something institutions tend to avoid. The reason why they do it its because the Democrat party at the end of the day its only another branch of the bussiness party.
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:06:38 PM by Baff
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.![]()
![]()
what
I thought that was republicans? and another thing, which direction is America moving in? to the left for the most part right? Well wouldn't that mean democrats are "winning" then? and are getting their agenda accomplished?
well when you have an extremist on one side(Obama) versus another on the other side(random hard line conservative) you would think they would meet somewhere in the middle. That is not what is happening.
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:14:26 PM by SecretLink
“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”![]()
lol
More conflicted? remind me again, how long have unemployment benefit thingies been extended? a year? How much has the government spent to "revive the economy" since 2006? Not to mention Obamacare.
actually its more like we are at the equivalent. Ostensibly our recent economic woes are because of a recession not a depression. If the the great depression had only been as bad as it is right now spending then would have been a lot closer to our current spending level.
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:26:20 PM by SecretLink
“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”I can agree to ideological differences. But when democrats win 5 of the las 6 elections, and even hold a supermayority, and then they only pass conservative legislation (???)
Then I begin to worry.
I was a very ardent Obama supporterd back in the day, and even against Romney, but I have to admit I am very unhappy with how little backbone he has exhibit.
I know some people think this compromise was necessary. But this "compromise" will come back to bite the democrats in the ass. Its just a matter of time.
If I am wrong and in the next debt ceiling negotiations democrats dont get slaughter then I will admit I was wrong.
Edit: Also Secret Link is right. Unemployment benefits are a very very leftist thing we do. Same with free public schools. Fact is that America is not conservative as we are made to beleive, but that it was built upon the leftist ideals of the New Deal, and if Democrats keep acting like pussys then you can kiss you public education, your unemployment bennefit, and your social security goodbye.
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:26:04 PM by Baff
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
what "conservative legislation?"
and don't worry about the dept ceiling fight. I'm calling it now. Boehner will fold. It is his nature.
what do you mean by "economically regressive first world nations"?
![]()
Obamacare? Conservative? ![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
wait, you're serious? How so?
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:30:24 PM by SecretLink
“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”I'm kind of wondering where anyone comes off labeling Obama an extremist. I mean I perceive him as further to the left than Bill Clinton on social and economic issues (which is why I like Obama more than Clinton), but his political positions are pretty normal among Democrats.
So, he's only an extremist if you think that conservative political positions are centrist.
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
First of all, try to be civil, and then I will try to talk with you.
Didnt you watch the Republican debates?
In any case I will link you to this article and let you draw your own conclussions.
[1]
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:34:15 PM by Baff
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.Foreign Policy is what I was thinking of, in which I'd put them at about the same, although Obama seems somewhat more open to foreign intervention.
It's kind of a mixed bag- the foreign intervention and use of drone strikes would probably be considered conservative (or at least things conservatives tend to support if they aren't Ron Paul).
On the other hand, Obama is less supportive of dictators the U.S. has traditionally supported, which I guess would be a liberal position.
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:40:06 PM by Hodor
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Obama is no different to Bush on foreign policy, except for invading countries (with ground troops) but everything else has been left in place.
Republicans are right to complain about democrats selective indignation.
edited 3rd Jan '13 12:40:01 PM by Baff
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.@Secret Link: Lots of spending does not equal economically left. It matter just as much what we spend on as how much we spend. I see no government work programs. No socialization of anything. No war on poverty. I do see us spending on big businesses and a reduction of Medicare and Social Security being fought for.
The US has the lowest economic mobility of any first world country. It has huge gaps between the rich and poor. The majority of legislation favors the rich over the poor. We're economically regressive.
Obamacare is certainly conservative. It saw a problem (people having bad healthcare), and decided that, rather than coming up with something wholly new, like universal single payer healthcare would be, it went with a safer option that didn't shake the boat as much, and was based mostly on previous things we've done with insurance, such as car insurance.

Boehner just won reelection to leader in the house.
dammit.
@ Baff, the way I've heard it explained is this: In Europe, socialism is assumed to be the human condition. It is the default government to them. The terms “right” and “left” only denote whether they are international “worker” socialist (left) or nationalist socialist (right). This is why the left in the US can make the connection between Nazis and Republicans—because in their respective continents, both are on the “right” despite the fact that they are as different as night and day.
The US, free market used to be our default condition. So “right” means less government and more freedom and “left” means the opposite.
edited 3rd Jan '13 11:56:47 AM by SecretLink
“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”