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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#45976: Jan 3rd 2013 at 11:51:54 AM

Boehner just won reelection to leader in the house.

dammit.

@ Baff, the way I've heard it explained is this: In Europe, socialism is assumed to be the human condition. It is the default government to them. The terms “right” and “left” only denote whether they are international “worker” socialist (left) or nationalist socialist (right). This is why the left in the US can make the connection between Nazis and Republicans—because in their respective continents, both are on the “right” despite the fact that they are as different as night and day.

The US, free market used to be our default condition. So “right” means less government and more freedom and “left” means the opposite.

edited 3rd Jan '13 11:56:47 AM by SecretLink

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#45978: Jan 3rd 2013 at 11:56:23 AM

45976 makes it sound like Boehner winning over Cantor is a deterioration. Sure?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#45979: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:03:32 PM

[up] Yes. Whether you agreed with republicans or not(and I do for the most part) the fact is that he is a terrible leader and representative for the republican party and folds like a wet paper towel. The man can't stand up for himself to save his life.

@ Thorn: some conservatives have made the analogy about Chris Christie was that he should have reached out his hand and shook Obama's, It was a crisis after all. But that it was more like he french kissed Obama with wild abandon as everyone looked on.

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45980: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:05:43 PM

Cantor is the guy who had set it up to profit financially had we hit the Debt ceiling back in 2011. Boehner sucks at his job, but Cantor is outright evil.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45981: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:05:52 PM

@Secret Link

While that is true, I would like to point at 2 things. 1. The American right associates Nazism with Leftist ideology as much as the American left associates the right with Nazism (and lets not go into that discussion anyhow because of Godwin's Law.)

And 2. That the Democrats RUN, they CLAIM to be, leftist. They dont say it, but their policy proposals are definetly left leaning.

But then they get elected and dont fufill their promises. They only pretend to fight for them and are only to happy to "compromise" when given a chance, even if that implies loosing a political battles, which is something institutions tend to avoid. The reason why they do it its because the Democrat party at the end of the day its only another branch of the bussiness party.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:06:38 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#45982: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:06:03 PM

From what I hear, Cantor is even more right-wing than Boehner.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45983: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:07:11 PM

Boehner isn't even that right wing, TBH. He's just worried about losing his speakership. He's been more willing to compromise than his actual party.

SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#45984: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:07:45 PM

[up][up][up] what

I thought that was republicans? and another thing, which direction is America moving in? to the left for the most part right? Well wouldn't that mean democrats are "winning" then? and are getting their agenda accomplished?

[down]well when you have an extremist on one side(Obama) versus another on the other side(random hard line conservative) you would think they would meet somewhere in the middle. That is not what is happening.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:14:26 PM by SecretLink

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#45985: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:09:29 PM

@Secret Link: The thing is, I want the guy who folds like a wet paper towel over the ideologue who never abandons his ideology even when it hurts people, and I especially don't want a hardline conservative to be running the joint.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:09:58 PM by deathpigeon

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45986: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:11:54 PM

The country is moving to the left on social matters. On economic matters, it's more conflicted.

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#45987: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:12:10 PM

It is if you're on the right, if you're on the left it's Democrats.

Trump delenda est
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#45988: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:17:58 PM

[up][up] lol

More conflicted? remind me again, how long have unemployment benefit thingies been extended? a year? How much has the government spent to "revive the economy" since 2006? Not to mention Obamacare.

[down]actually its more like we are at the equivalent. Ostensibly our recent economic woes are because of a recession not a depression. If the the great depression had only been as bad as it is right now spending then would have been a lot closer to our current spending level.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:26:20 PM by SecretLink

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#45989: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:19:01 PM

We are far to the right of the New Deal and the Great Society.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45990: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:21:57 PM

I can agree to ideological differences. But when democrats win 5 of the las 6 elections, and even hold a supermayority, and then they only pass conservative legislation (???)

Then I begin to worry.

I was a very ardent Obama supporterd back in the day, and even against Romney, but I have to admit I am very unhappy with how little backbone he has exhibit.

I know some people think this compromise was necessary. But this "compromise" will come back to bite the democrats in the ass. Its just a matter of time.

If I am wrong and in the next debt ceiling negotiations democrats dont get slaughter then I will admit I was wrong.

Edit: Also Secret Link is right. Unemployment benefits are a very very leftist thing we do. Same with free public schools. Fact is that America is not conservative as we are made to beleive, but that it was built upon the leftist ideals of the New Deal, and if Democrats keep acting like pussys then you can kiss you public education, your unemployment bennefit, and your social security goodbye.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:26:04 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#45991: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:25:18 PM

[up] what "conservative legislation?"

and don't worry about the dept ceiling fight. I'm calling it now. Boehner will fold. It is his nature.

[down]what do you mean by "economically regressive first world nations"?

[down][down]Obamacare? Conservative? [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol] wait, you're serious? How so?

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:30:24 PM by SecretLink

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#45992: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:26:01 PM

[up][up][up][up]lol thinking the US is not one of the most economically regressive first world nations.

[up][up]There was no liberal democrat majority, they have always been cockblocked by the blue dogs and republicans, so stop spewing such bullshit.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:26:24 PM by Ekuran

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45993: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:27:06 PM

[up]

I didnt say there was a liberal democratic mayority. I said that there was a democratic mayority, andthat it only passed legislation that was fundamentally conservative.

Case in point, Obamacare.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#45994: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:28:59 PM

I'm kind of wondering where anyone comes off labeling Obama an extremist. I mean I perceive him as further to the left than Bill Clinton on social and economic issues (which is why I like Obama more than Clinton), but his political positions are pretty normal among Democrats.

So, he's only an extremist if you think that conservative political positions are centrist.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#45995: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:29:05 PM

[up][up]Exactly, so why the fuck do you think they could have done anything at all?

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:29:52 PM by Ekuran

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45996: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:30:06 PM

[up]

First of all, try to be civil, and then I will try to talk with you.

@Secret Link

Didnt you watch the Republican debates? In any case I will link you to this article and let you draw your own conclussions. [1]

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:34:15 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#45997: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:35:07 PM

[up][up] what? if Obama is to the left of Clinton on social and economic issues doesn't that constitute most or the majority of a person's political positions? Whats the difference?

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#45998: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:38:01 PM

Foreign Policy is what I was thinking of, in which I'd put them at about the same, although Obama seems somewhat more open to foreign intervention.

It's kind of a mixed bag- the foreign intervention and use of drone strikes would probably be considered conservative (or at least things conservatives tend to support if they aren't Ron Paul).

On the other hand, Obama is less supportive of dictators the U.S. has traditionally supported, which I guess would be a liberal position.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:40:06 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45999: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:39:43 PM

[up]

Obama is no different to Bush on foreign policy, except for invading countries (with ground troops) but everything else has been left in place.

Republicans are right to complain about democrats selective indignation.

edited 3rd Jan '13 12:40:01 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#46000: Jan 3rd 2013 at 12:41:13 PM

@Secret Link: Lots of spending does not equal economically left. It matter just as much what we spend on as how much we spend. I see no government work programs. No socialization of anything. No war on poverty. I do see us spending on big businesses and a reduction of Medicare and Social Security being fought for.

The US has the lowest economic mobility of any first world country. It has huge gaps between the rich and poor. The majority of legislation favors the rich over the poor. We're economically regressive.

Obamacare is certainly conservative. It saw a problem (people having bad healthcare), and decided that, rather than coming up with something wholly new, like universal single payer healthcare would be, it went with a safer option that didn't shake the boat as much, and was based mostly on previous things we've done with insurance, such as car insurance.


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