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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#45876: Jan 2nd 2013 at 5:40:20 AM
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#45877: Jan 2nd 2013 at 5:40:33 AM

It's a bit early, isn't it? Well, maybe not. The Dow and the S&P are both up this morning.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#45878: Jan 2nd 2013 at 5:51:32 AM

I don't just mean the US Markets — but it appears that Shares rally on US fiscal cliff deal: For example, the FTSE100 is up by 2.35% and rising at 13:50 GMT.

Keep Rolling On
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45879: Jan 2nd 2013 at 9:53:38 AM

It’s common to blame gerrymandering for this mess, but while that certainly plays a role, the Senate is hardly much better than the House in this regard. Gridlock shakes out as a pretty natural consequence of an American constitutional order that was deliberately designed to be cumbersome.

An article explaining why the reason for today's extemism isnt so much gerrymandering, but the lack of pork spending.

[1]

Edit: FIXED

edited 2nd Jan '13 10:16:45 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#45880: Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:09:57 AM

Tinyurl it. It's being broken by the hyphenator.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45881: Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:18:01 AM

Also, anyone remember when Fox News sat down with Petreous, and telling him that if he didnt get the post at the head of the CIA he should run for president and Murdouch would finance him?

edited 2nd Jan '13 10:22:38 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#45882: Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:21:46 AM

I apologize in advance for thread hopping (although I did read the last three pages) but does the collective here consider this deal better than going over the cliff would have been, or not? And why?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#45883: Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:24:17 AM

Unsure; not fully aware of the effects of the cliff. But I don't think it's really any worse than going over the cliff would have been.

Accurate or inaccurate?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45884: Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:32:36 AM

I don't know about anyone else, but my impression is that the deal *itself* isn't bad, so much as that it just puts Obama in a weaker bargaining position in the future.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#45885: Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:40:57 AM

If I understand correctly, this deal will raise 600 billion in new revenue over the next 10 years. Since the target had been on the order of 4 trillion or so, that's nothing. So either the remainder has to be made up in spending cuts (disaster for the welfare state) or they have another revenue fight coming at some point. Am I right about this?

edited 2nd Jan '13 10:41:17 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#45886: Jan 2nd 2013 at 11:03:48 AM

Not entirely. Krugman has gone on at length [1] [2] [3] about how the deficit is largely transient, composed primarily of (a) falling revenues due to the output gap, (b) increased automatic social spending — Medicare, Medicaid, etc. — due to the recession, (c) income support (unemployment) and temporary tax cuts.

Remove all of those and the structural deficit — the amount that is fundamentally out of balance and not a result of economic hardships — is so tiny that it may as well not exist at all. In short, all we need to do to fix the problem is to get our economy back on track, and hey-presto!, no more deficit.

The call for additional tax revenues is mainly about reducing the debt to GDP ratio in the long run, as well as funding social programs.

As I posted in the economics thread, Krugman's main opposition to this deal is that it doesn't go far enough in addressing revenue shortfalls while drastically weakening Obama's negotiating position on the debt ceiling. Essentially, it punts the budget issues down the road two months, while conceding on portions of the tax deal that Obama could have achieved anyway just by letting the cliff pass.

edited 2nd Jan '13 11:23:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45887: Jan 2nd 2013 at 11:50:45 AM

I'm convinced more damage would have been done if we went over the cliff.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45888: Jan 2nd 2013 at 11:56:56 AM

More damage NOW? Certainly. But a lot less damage than hitting the debt ceiling, and probably less damage than whatever it is the Republicans will demand in exchange for raising the debt ceiling.

Honestly, I want Obama to just go 14th amendment on their asses.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#45889: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:01:50 PM

I've seen an increasing number of pundits arguing that we should play the 14th Amendment card on the debt ceiling and destroy it once and for all.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45890: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:08:13 PM

I really wonder what will happen in 2014.

Will people just vote out anyone in the hopes for a better congress, or will we get "Well my congress person was fine, so I'll keep them in!"

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#45891: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:11:35 PM

Boehner told Reid to "Go fuck himself," outside the Oval Office, according to multiple sources.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45892: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:13:26 PM

Well, at least he didn't challenge him to a duel.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#45893: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:13:58 PM

Will people just vote out anyone in the hopes for a better congress, or will we get "Well my congress person was fine, so I'll keep them in!"

Probably that, seeing how it's been going on for centuries under all manner of circumstances ranging from far better to far worse.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#45894: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:47:42 PM

So, what the fuck is wrong with the House not voting on the Sandy relief package? Who's idea is it, and who gains?'

I mean, it's a Republican move, from what I can see, as they control the House, but we've also got republicans saying things like this.

"In light of Tuesday's inaction ... anyone from New York or New Jersey who contributes to the National Republican Congressional Committee should have their 'head examined,' " Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said on CNN.

edited 2nd Jan '13 12:49:23 PM by DrTentacles

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#45895: Jan 2nd 2013 at 12:52:41 PM

It's not a republican idea. Republicans were as upset about it as democrats. It's all on Boehner. He was the one who ended the session despite 28 minutes of people on both sides of the aisle trying to stop him from doing it before they could vote on the Sandy Bill.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45896: Jan 2nd 2013 at 1:01:47 PM

Judging by the Reid article, Boehner probably wanted to go home and drink himself stupid.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45897: Jan 2nd 2013 at 1:02:50 PM

@They Call Me Tomu

Indeed. Only vice presidents are allowed to shot people in the face after all.

edited 2nd Jan '13 1:03:00 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#45898: Jan 2nd 2013 at 1:03:34 PM

That's... political suicide. I don't know what his reasons were, but it looks like he doesn't care about the people at all. "I want to go now, so I'll just ignore everyone who needs help. I'm not doing badly, so no one else could be, right?"

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45899: Jan 2nd 2013 at 1:05:47 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if he honestly didn't give a shit anymore.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45900: Jan 2nd 2013 at 1:11:27 PM

Chris Christie Tears Fellow Republicans Apart Over Sandy Relief

NJ Governor says House's move 'disgusting to watch'

So today is the last day of 112th Congress.

edited 2nd Jan '13 1:14:46 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

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