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Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#45801: Jan 1st 2013 at 5:34:32 PM

[up][up] I have an answer. It's because Democrats like Obama are complicit.

I'm hearing reports that there's a rift between Cantor and Baehner right now. The former apparently wants to vote on the deal, while the latter doesn't even want it on the floor.

edited 1st Jan '13 5:37:49 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45802: Jan 1st 2013 at 5:38:45 PM

Really? I would have expected the reverse.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#45803: Jan 1st 2013 at 5:54:33 PM

The Democrats can and should continue to fight long and hard after this deal passes. Remember, nothing's been settled in the long-term regarding the debt limit or a number of other issues. The deal is neither a victory nor a failure; it is a single first step. We only fail if we stop here.

Take the long view, people.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#45805: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:00:51 PM

@Tomu: You believe in Keynesian economics. Sure, you'll have statistics ready that say Keynesianism is the most reliable economic theory. But at the end of the day, you choose to believe in one thing and not the other.

If you can have beliefs about a science (a soft science, but still) then I think I'm entitled to my beliefs regarding human nature.

Plus, it's just a figure of speech, and so was kinda nitpicking on your part.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#45806: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:02:11 PM

The only reason that economics is a "soft science" is that so many people have spent so much time muddying the waters in an attempt to make it subject to the whims of politicians rather than mathematicians and sociologists.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#45807: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:05:25 PM

I look on modern economics as being about as credible as the medical and evolutionary fields at the time of Social Darwinism, and for the exact same reason.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#45808: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:08:53 PM

Bipartisan cooperation? Politians putting aside petty partisanship for the good of the country? How un-American.

Anyway, economics and politics don't mix. Politians don't vote for things based on the advice on economic experts. If they did, they wouldn't be subsidizing profitable corporations, or "too big to fail" businesses.

edited 1st Jan '13 6:10:35 PM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#45809: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:11:12 PM

The only reason that economics is a "soft science" is that so many people have spent so much time muddying the waters in an attempt to make it subject to the whims of politicians rather than mathematicians and sociologists.
What brings you to that conclusion? Other than the fact that there are respected economic theories that don't align with your political views?

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#45810: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:11:27 PM

House voting on fiscal cliff tonight.

10 States raise minimum wage today

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45811: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:12:52 PM

BTW: If anybody is interested, here is a livefeed of the House of Representatives.

edited 1st Jan '13 6:14:07 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#45812: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:31:10 PM

Under the deal, taxes would remain steady for the middle class and rise at incomes over $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for couples — levels higher than Obama had campaigned for in his successful drive for a second term in office.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#45813: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:44:28 PM

[up] For heavens sake,considering everything else he campaigned for has been either ditched or virtually such,...this is something to celebrate. He made the GOP cave

That alone is an amazing feat. We'd should be grateful for that and ya' know what at least some of the fair share is returning rather than none.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45814: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:45:22 PM

Apparently it has to be 100% or nothing.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45815: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:51:15 PM

I think the House just brought up the Senate Deal.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#45816: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:54:25 PM

Thorn, I'm reasonably happy about the deal. But you don't understand two things. First, we still had time. The "cliff" takes place slowly, over a period time. And the effects would take a while to set in. He had time to push harder. I'd like it if he did a little more about inheritance taxes, for instance.

The second, more pressing concern is that the republicans are going to try very, very hard to roll this back when the Deficit Cap debate comes around in a month or so. That's going to be ugly. IMO, Obama needed to push really, really hard here, because you can bet your ass that the House is going to demand concessions, and probable re-negotiations in exchange for voting on that.

You have to look at the bigger picture. Obama needed a smashing "victory" in this, because it's very possible a lot of the work on the "cliff" will be undone in a month or so.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#45817: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:57:47 PM

Did House agree to a Senate bill? I thought the bill had to start in the House.

LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#45818: Jan 1st 2013 at 6:57:50 PM

[up]x4 That's for anyone to be pleased with Obama/Dems... I'd just be pleased seeing the Repugs and their corporate/banker scum-eating purseholders cave is all... This is why people like us will need to take real responsibility someday for this level of failure and incompetence, as far as I'm concerned(no questions about it!).

[up]x2 Exactly what I'm afraid of... This will only further confirm that Dems are a cowardly lot and could pave the way for more Repug/Corporatist/Fascist scum to take power lesser than soon enough (which is looking at the bigger picture down the road!).

edited 1st Jan '13 7:00:52 PM by LostAnarchist

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45819: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:00:25 PM

[up][up]

The House is debating the bill right now.

House Minority Leader Pelosi (D-CA) is currently speaking.

Pacific Time 7:05: Now Representative Rangel (D-NY) is talking.

edited 1st Jan '13 7:06:44 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#45820: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:03:42 PM

I mean, I thought the bill had to be finished in the House and then sent to the Senate.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#45821: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:05:34 PM

What's to stop Obama from just putting his foot down in the fiscal cliff debates? (I know, this would be new for him, and he's given no indication of possessing such cojones before.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45822: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:07:36 PM

[up]

What do you mean "just putting his foot down" ?

Pacific Time 7:09: Now Representative Richard Neal (D-MA) is talking.

7:14: Now Representative Bill Pascrell (D-NJ) is talking.

7:18: Now Representative Allyson Schwartz (D-PA) is talking about the need for bipartisanship.

7:22: Now Representative Danny K. Davis (D-IL) is taking.

7:24: Now Representative Jim Clyburn (D-NC) is saying this is not a perfect bill and bashing the Tea Party.

7:33: Now Representative Ed Royce (R-CA) is complaining about entitlement programs.

edited 1st Jan '13 7:34:16 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#45823: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:16:57 PM

As the President, Obama's only real power in crafting legislation is to veto. Other than that, the President can't do anything except offer suggestions.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#45824: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:27:50 PM

So really, Obama has no real power on the fiscal cliff except to reject a deal he doesn't like.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#45825: Jan 1st 2013 at 7:29:52 PM

Not in the least and if it passes by a wide enough margin he doesn't really even have that.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

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