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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#45751: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:49:39 AM

Repubs let taxes rise on the rich for income and capital gains (4%/5% respectively). But it's now defined as starting at 400,000 annual salary instead of 250,000. Estate Tax now exempts something like the first 5~10 million dollars.

Meanwhile, Democrats keep a lot of the nice tax breaks for the poor from the Bush Tax Cuts plus a lot of the nifty tax credits and deductions they got in. Unemployment insurance lasts another year. Farm Bill gets extended. Business Tax Breaks for everyone remain extended. Cuts to Doctors under medicare get kicked out for another year.

The Sequester is being kicked down two months from now. We also lose the Payroll Tax Cuts for the working class.

It's a lot of compromise on both ends, and the Republicans and Democrats didn't touch the Social Programs at all.

Bluesqueak Since: Jan, 2010
#45752: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:50:34 AM

[up][up]@Baff, you're not talking about US politics. US politics was set up from the start so that the country could not be run without a lot of compromise. Gridlock in cases of serious disagreement is designed-in. It's called the U.S. Constitution.

If you want a 'winner-takes-all' system you need a First-Past-The-Post parliamentary democracy. In which you would, even now, be telling the Republicans 'You lost, suckers! That means all you get to do for the next four years is complain!'

But your system doesn't work like that.

It ain't over 'till the ring hits the lava.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45753: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:52:09 AM

In the end, people who are worth up to a million dollars a year will have their taxes cut because, all do the plan talks about income higher than 450 000 because of the marginal income thingy, which means they will get tax a part of what they earned tax at the lower rate.

[up] But compromise wasnt necessary. The only thing that made it necessary its because Republicans play a game of dare and the democrats never dare.

And this is why I talk about indocrtination.

Because the media have shower the public with all this talk about "compromise" (which is a doctrine that many people beleive, just in the same way Coca Cola sells us soda trough adds) and how we should come "together" But if you poll people and asked them on an issue per issue basis then the democrat plan would have overwhealming support. The narrative would not be "compromise" but, "fufill the american public expectations".

edited 1st Jan '13 11:55:29 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#45754: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:53:38 AM

George Washington thought parties were dangerous. I don't think they expected things to turn out quite like they did.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45755: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:54:42 AM

[up][up]

Compromise wasn't necessary?

So lets assume that NOTHING passes because of no compromise, then what?

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45756: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:58:01 AM

[up]

Democrats introduce a bill letting the bush tax cuts expire above 250 000 and leaving everything else pretty much as it was before the fiscal cliff.

Chances are, overwhealming that it would have passed because voting against it would have been to vote FOR TAX INCREASES on everyone. If that failed then youd just let the country panic until the republicans backed away, or if you are less extremist as I am, compromise at that point.

But the thing, we are technically without a deal yet. The House hasnt voted. We ran out of the fiscal cliff, and guess what? The world hasnt ended.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45757: Jan 1st 2013 at 11:59:09 AM

No one said the world was going to end immediately upon going over the cliff.

The point was if we go over and do nothing will hurt our economy.

Also why would Republicans vote for that?

And you really think our country panicking would be a good thing?

edited 1st Jan '13 11:59:33 AM by Thorn14

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45758: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:02:17 PM

[up]

Because if Republicans didnt vote to cut taxes, and then we compromised, in that order, then in the elections democrats woul dhave had the consolation prize of saying:

"Said Republican voted to raise taxes on all families earning less than 250000 dollars a year to save money to his millionaire friends".

But that would imply that the democrats would have won, which runs against their prime directive, that is, which seems to be "loose at all costs", so they didnt.

And about letting the country panic, no it would not be a good idea, but you have to draw a line in the sand some time or another.

edited 1st Jan '13 12:04:04 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#45759: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:02:48 PM

[up][up] And Panic almost equals Anarchy. I'd almost welcome it (with how angry I am at my nation and would love to see some real action against what ails it) - too bad more innocent people who don't want this would be hurt and would little where else to go unless they can afford to escape the chaos. America's in bad enough shape. The math is right there in big bald capital letters...

edited 1st Jan '13 12:03:39 PM by LostAnarchist

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45760: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:04:15 PM

Panic & Anarchy hurts everyone and helps no one.

edited 1st Jan '13 12:04:31 PM by Thorn14

LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#45761: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:06:09 PM

[up] This. No other complaints from me - I'm just sick of all the talk and lack of action, and not just from the gov't, either.

edited 1st Jan '13 12:07:21 PM by LostAnarchist

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45762: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:06:44 PM

[up][up]

Point is, there would not have been anarchy because republicans would have had no choice other than to vote for the democratic plan. Its obvious.

Because, amongst other things, they would be violating their pledge not to raise taxes if they voted against it.

edited 1st Jan '13 12:07:27 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45763: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:07:04 PM

And if they were as steadfast as you are?

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#45764: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:07:30 PM

[up][up] And if your "obvious" plan would have failed?

edited 1st Jan '13 12:08:01 PM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45765: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:08:40 PM

[up][up]

Then at that point democrats compromise. See? I am not against compromise. I am against one sided capitulation, I also find it supecious. A bunch of rich guys pretend to care about equality but in the end decide not to raise taxes on themselves? *I am shocked*.

Also what is the message we are sending to Republicans? "Please be more extreme next time Mr. Republican, oh! please be more hard line! We will don anything you ask us to do, and well call it a compromise!"

edited 1st Jan '13 12:10:46 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45766: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:13:35 PM

[up] This isn't a war between two parties, you know. No ones keeping score either.

I'm baaaaaaack
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45767: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:17:38 PM

[up]

The "score" can be seen in legistalation. the "score" is the end result. Lower taxes for the rich than for the poor, subsidies to huge industries. Corporate capitalism. Destruction of civil rights. Persecussion of drug offenders and terrorists, like the OWS movment. Invasions, war crimes. Pollution. Corruption.

That is the score.

Also the elections are a form of score, and I dont see why on earth shouldnt the democrats take a chance to improve their "scores" in both ways, except if they actually didnt care about what they claim they care about, which they dont.

And republicans are winning. Oh, and did I mention they have lost 5 of the last 6 elections?

edited 1st Jan '13 12:21:25 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45768: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:29:55 PM

No, your ignoring what I mean. Theres no score in who passes what law, what matters are the laws. It's not a game, it's not a competition. Shesh.

I'm baaaaaaack
IConfuseMe from Washington, DC Since: Jan, 2010
#45769: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:50:16 PM

What is it if not a competition? Both sides have ideas, both want the populace to support them and their ideas and both argue ad contest one another to implement and convince the populace of their ideas. How could politics be anything but a competition in a democracy?

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45770: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:01:01 PM

Alright, there is competition but it's not a sport or something like that. Baff seems to think the republicans are getting points or something

I'm baaaaaaack
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#45771: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:25:00 PM

Good Lord, Baff. You're so obnoxiously illogical I honestly wish I was a Republican, just so I could laugh at you. You see nothing but Republican victories. Trust me, though, I know actual Republicans. None of them think they won.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45772: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:29:32 PM

They're probably voting against this due to no spending cuts.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45773: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:32:53 PM

@Joesolo You are missconstructing my arguments. Democrats had a chance to force republicans to vote for tax hikes and they didnt, and I wonder, why the hell? Scoring political points when you can is important because it helps you in elections. I would beleive that polititians would try to do this. When they dont I ask myself, why didnt they do it? There are 2 solutions here. One. They did it for the good of the country. Two. They did it beacuase they didnt care that much, after all they are rich and succeding could imply higher taxes for them personally and for some of their donors.

@Ultrayellow.

The reason why republicans beleive they got nothing is because they listen and beleive the same narrative that you liste to. They beleive this was a compromise. If you where to see the issue from outside the frame that has been handed to you by the media then maybe you would see some logic in my statements even if you didnt agree with them.

Also I am not the only one who holds this position. Other notoriously obnoxious people including Krugmann, Slate, etc.

Its not like I invented this argument. I just happen to beleive it.

edited 1st Jan '13 1:37:35 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45774: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:37:22 PM

"You are missconstructing my arguments."

.*Flips a table*

I'm baaaaaaack
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#45775: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:38:48 PM

[up] You shouldnt flip tables you know? Why would you destroy your furniture?(Alright, now I am just trolling but I couldnt resist).

edited 1st Jan '13 1:41:22 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

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