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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#45376: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:53:06 AM

@Kostya - I told you what I suggest. We need laws that constrain what the government can do, not merely how they can do it. The Bill of Rights has been a pretty successful example, although less so in recent years.

edited 30th Dec '12 11:54:16 AM by Topazan

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45377: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:54:10 AM

[up]I think the federal government should be allowed to do more, not less. Also what would you suggest constraining to keep riders from being allowed? Really they can be anything so even if you limit what they can do they can still pass riders that relate to whatever powers you grant them.

[up][up]I thought Kerry was going to be the new secretary?

Boehner you can't even rally your own party to your plan b. Stop bullshitting.

Two more senators to hate. Nothing new.

[up][up][up]Yeah. I think the ruling this is overturning has a lot of flaws but this is just ridiculous. It essentially means any person can kill any officer just for doing something that they think might be illegal regardless of whether or not the officer did it or was actually posing a threat.

edited 30th Dec '12 11:55:13 AM by Kostya

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#45378: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:00:28 PM

Hmmm... what about allowing line item vetoes, and allowing votes in the legislature that would strike a particular item or clause from a bill?

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45379: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:00:32 PM

[up][up]

Kerry is going to be the Secretary of State

Hagel is (probably) going to be the Secretary of Defense

edited 30th Dec '12 12:00:55 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45380: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:01:36 PM

[up]Oh yeah, both are getting replaced.

[up][up]Then you can just defang any bill you don't like regardless of whether or not it has validity. Imagine if that happened to the healthcare bill. The mandate would be gone.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#45381: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:04:37 PM

Senator Reid: Senate at 'cliff' stalemate after GOP demands Social Security cuts

edited 30th Dec '12 12:05:18 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#45382: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:06:08 PM

I think the federal government should be allowed to do more, not less. Also what would you suggest constraining to keep riders from being allowed? Really they can be anything so even if you limit what they can do they can still pass riders that relate to whatever powers you grant them.
"Riders" are not a problem in of themselves. It's what they say that matters. We should focus on the policy, not the method by which the policy was passed. Even if the method could be stopped, which it can't in this case, the same things would be done by some other method.

Keep in mind, your guys won't be the majority forever. Any legislation you introduce to reduce the ability of the minority to influence policy could end up hurting you as well.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#45383: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:06:44 PM

[up][up][up] Well, if you have enough support, yes. But if a clause is so bad that it would be brought to a vote and lose, I think maybe it doesn't have any business getting passed that way, anyway. Maybe make it a supermajority vote to be sure?

edited 30th Dec '12 12:07:24 PM by TheGirlWithPointyEars

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#45385: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:30:01 PM

Gingrich revealed to be ABBA fan

Gingrich is dead to me.

edited 30th Dec '12 12:30:06 PM by carbon-mantis

tbok1992 The 4.5th Horseman from On the midnight train going an-y-where... Since: Dec, 2012
The 4.5th Horseman
#45386: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:19:09 PM

Well, doccuments have just been leaked showing the FBI collaborating with corporate America to spy and crack down on Occupy Wall Street, including plans to assassinate Occupy leaders.

And this is why, if there is a loving god, I hope he will purge Wall Street and Washington with fire Sodom-and-Gomorrah-style. The fact that I am agnostic shows how much chance I think that has of happening.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:22:14 PM by tbok1992

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#45387: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:36:46 PM

Links or it didn't happen man.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#45388: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:36:53 PM

[up][up]Gonna need a link on that. Preferably to a site that doesn't read like the ramblings of a paranoid schizophrenic.

We get a lot of those.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:37:01 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
tbok1992 The 4.5th Horseman from On the midnight train going an-y-where... Since: Dec, 2012
The 4.5th Horseman
#45389: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:41:56 PM

Dangit, it keeps saying "Sorry, New Accounts cannot post links".

Well, The article I want to link to is from The Guardian and by Naomi Wolf, and the title is "Revealed: how the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy". If you put Guardian Crackdown Occupy into Google, it should be accessible via the third link from the top. I also found out about it via several links/references to it on The Daily Kos, and if it's not a hoax/forgery, it is terrifying news.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:53:09 PM by tbok1992

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45390: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:50:13 PM

Gingrich as an ABBA fan is old news. Maddow broke that story forever ago.

Wait, ABBA's the one that sung dancing queen, right?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45391: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:03:52 PM

Topazan, we have laws that constrain what government does. That's why we can't be searched without reason, and why they have to tell us why they want in our homes. And why we have "innocent until proven guilty" as the cornerstone of our laws.

And yes, we should be attacking the validity of riders. Riders are how that damned NDAA scandal happened last year: The Republicans attached something terrible to a military pay bill to make sure it couldn't be blocked. Attaching things completely unrelated to the main bill is bad fucking policy. And yes, method is part of policy.

Also, I rarely buy into any theory that involves the assassination of random, non offensive citizens. Far as I'm concerned that's conspiracy theory nutjobs at work. Hell, they'd have to start going after the folks trying to unionize Wal-Mart employees too, if opposing big business is the qualifier for this.

edited 30th Dec '12 3:05:49 PM by AceofSpades

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#45393: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:12:29 PM

I just read the article. Tbok isn't exaggerating - not even the assassination part.

Mother of God, if this doesn't explode all over the major news networks, my skull is going to explode instead.

I cannot possibly imagine a greater attack on the liberty of American citizens. They are now willing to KILL YOU if you PROTEST AGAINST THEM PEACEFULLY. We are now China. Or have been, rather, and just now are finding this out.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45394: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:16:23 PM

I can't wait for the cries on the right that this is entirely justified. Either way this is just going to make people hate corporations even more. At least it should.

Seriously, this could have severe repercussions in history. Imagine what it could do to America's view of corporations and the government.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45395: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:18:05 PM

One, it's a British newspaper. I doubt it will get much attention in the US. Two, I need more proof than this for anything regarding assassinations, because that's a goddamned extreme claim. So yeah, not getting all that worked up about it.

OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#45396: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:19:29 PM

That makes the assumption that any of the major news groups will carry it. Since most of them are run by corporations, it seems somewhat doubtful.

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45397: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:20:53 PM

[up]Which, in itself, is a bad thing. I think news entities should be entirely independent from any other organizations. Otherwise they can be biased.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45398: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:21:14 PM

The Young Turks'll bring it up eventually.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45399: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:21:33 PM

I'm kind of questioning the sniper rifle bit(doesnt say who suggested it, the FBI might have just gone lol no), but even just the rest of it is frightening.

I'm baaaaaaack
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45400: Dec 30th 2012 at 3:38:06 PM

Well, the fact that a crackdown on the thing happened is not new, because we saw that happen. Police misconduct and the like was well documented. But claims of assassins waiting in the wings to snipe off leaders (particularly when there was no one leader people could point to) just seems like more of the fear mongering I'm getting sick of in general.


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