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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#45351: Dec 30th 2012 at 5:17:29 AM

The Constitution isn't made for the 21st Centurytongue

And you can't rearrange the States willy-nilly either.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#45352: Dec 30th 2012 at 5:27:19 AM

I just wonder why the US president can't be elected by direct vote rather than indirect vote (or rather, "why it was written as such in the Constitution"). That sounds like a silly and overcomplicated choice to me.

I know, we have this two-turns weirdness here; to me it's a "next best thing" (for lack of a better word) to preferential voting: It allows vote transfer and thus reduces the spoiler effect (though 2002 demonstrated that it doesn't reduce it enough, which tainted subsequent French presidential elections with the "fear of a new 2002").

edited 30th Dec '12 5:28:04 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#45353: Dec 30th 2012 at 5:32:26 AM

Gerrymandering was also ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court, so we are screwed on that front.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#45354: Dec 30th 2012 at 7:35:22 AM

Or any candidates with similar names.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45355: Dec 30th 2012 at 7:41:29 AM

I wouldn't mind if we went to proportional representation for each state and just ignore districts altogether. It would probably cause its own set of problems but at least we wouldn't have bullshit like the Democrats winning the majority of the votes in the state but only getting a third of the seats. The representatives for the state should reflect the values of the state and so far districting seems to be failing at this.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#45356: Dec 30th 2012 at 7:52:52 AM

I'm not sure complete write-in voting would work well, for a number of the previously mentioned reasons, and perhaps parties can't be abolished altogether. But they might not need to be - there's nothing that says the party needs to be named on the ballot, and not naming parties of the candidates (only names) should cut down on folks blindly voting straight party ticket without reading anything at all about the candidates themselves. Of course, that would have to be implemented by partisan officials, good luck convincing them of that, and parties or campaigns can always send out flyers or put out ads saying who's in which party without giving out much other info.

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45357: Dec 30th 2012 at 7:58:05 AM

Write in voting would cause problems when you get people that might not know how to spell a person's name or can't remember the name of the other person.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#45358: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:10:10 AM

If you remove party names form the ballot then you will see lots of elections being won by the person whose name comes first. People already get extra votes if they are the first (or last) name on the ballot. That will increase massively if you remove part affiliation from the ballot. Plus less people will vote.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45359: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:14:26 AM

Yes which is why I think party identification should still be on there. It seems strange to remove it.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#45360: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:27:20 AM

Didn't think about that, interesting. Not sure if the point overturns what I see as the benefits, though - a name coming first on the ballot would presumably affect all ideologies equally, unless one party started legally changing all their names to things like "Aaron Aaronson". Still would be a hard sell, though, of course, as the current system benefits those who would have to change it.

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#45361: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:28:26 AM

[up]

it'd at least change political discource to where people with A startng their last name will be groomed to be the party members on the ballot.

edited 30th Dec '12 9:28:38 AM by Midgetsnowman

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45362: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:30:50 AM

Simple solution, put the third party candidates first.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45363: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:52:33 AM

We need really need some amendments to update the constitution for the 21st century. First off, direct election of President. Second, stop filibusters by banning people from holding the floor while saying nothing of use. Third, ban Gerrymandering.

I'm baaaaaaack
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45365: Dec 30th 2012 at 10:03:25 AM

That too. We probably need at least 10 if we think about it.

Constitutionally ban Private prisons while we're at it.

I'm baaaaaaack
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45366: Dec 30th 2012 at 10:05:57 AM

I don't think you need a constitutional ban for that. Also I think most of those other things can be put into one amendment that focuses on making the government system fairer.

Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#45367: Dec 30th 2012 at 10:11:11 AM

I think it's going to be difficult to ban subjective things like riders or gerrymandering, especially because the people who would be responsible for enforcing those laws are the kinds of people who typically commit them.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45368: Dec 30th 2012 at 10:14:30 AM

[up] Thats exactly why there are the issues. We'd need to have them really fuck up, get decent people voted in and push this stuff through then. and then you've got to get the states to pass it.

I'm baaaaaaack
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#45369: Dec 30th 2012 at 10:53:37 AM

[up]The issue isn't just getting them passed, it's implementing them in practice. For example, someone would have to determine what does and doesn't constitute a rider, and that can be a very subjective thing. Depending on how strict the enforcement was, either riders would still get through thanks to some tenuous connection, or politicians would be able to get bills they oppose struck down on the pretense that some section isn't directly related to the main purpose.

I think the solution is a stricter set of laws limiting what Congress can do, not how they can do it.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45370: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:11:15 AM

So you don't make it vague. vague wording is why the constitution has problems. well, that and loopholes.

Basically make it so that anything not directly related to the enforcement or enactment of a new law's primary use can not be included as part of it's bill.

I'm baaaaaaack
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#45371: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:21:35 AM

There's no way to not make it vague. "Related" is an inherently subjective measure. There's often no clear line between something that's related and something that's not.

For example, if you want to attach an oil subsidy to an education bill you might argue "This will help ensure that there are good engineering jobs available for the next generation of students."

On the other hand, if you wanted to pass an anti-discrimination bill, someone might argue "Race, gender, and sexuality are separate issues. They are riding on each other. This bill should be struck down so they can all be debated individually."

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#45372: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:27:04 AM

I am... kinda sick to my stomach.

2011, the Indiana supreme court upheld a class-A misdemeanor charge against a man who attacked a police officer when that officer was responding to a claim of domestic violence by the man's wife. He had started throwing things when she tried to move out.

The NRA got so pissed off with this that they successfully lobbied for an amendment to the state's Castle Doctrine law which would allow citizens to attack and indeed kill "Public servants" if the citizen feels in danger or feels that the entry is unlawful.

A person is not justified in using deadly force against a public servant whom the person knows or reasonably should know is a public servant unless:
(1) the person reasonably believes that the public servant is:
(A) acting unlawfully; or
(B) not engaged in the execution of the public servant's official duties; and
(2) the force is reasonably necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person.\\

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45373: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:27:42 AM

[up][up]So you suggest we just do nothing?

[up]So does this mean drug dealers can legally shoot police officers? They'd still get charged with drug dealing but it sounds like they wouldn't get held accountable for that. Either way this is a stupid idea for many reasons.

edit: I get that the police can be corrupt and shit but once citizens don't get in trouble for disobeying them then there's no point to having a police force.

edit 2: Wait it wasn't unlawful for them to enter. The wife said they could come in and even if she didn't I'm pretty sure they're allowed to enter if they're attempting to stop a crime. Cops can go into places if they absolutely have to without being allowed in.

edited 30th Dec '12 11:39:09 AM by Kostya

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#45374: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:47:55 AM

Ok, thats bullshit NRA. Them "acting illegally" isn't reason enough to shoot them in the face, and this police officer wasnt even doing anything illegal! If a cop came in and started shooting you, of course you can fight back. But if they come in when your attacking your wife, come on, you really think your in the right at ALL?

edited 30th Dec '12 11:48:46 AM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack

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