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Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#44876: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:18:09 AM

[up][up] Which doesn't happen if people are required to go through the same thing as the one holding the bat. That is, trained and evaluation.

Which means, that's too unlikely of a scenario to consider. It works both ways. And really, making up silly hypotheticals that probably won't happen? Come on, let's not grasp at straws here. Guns are something relevant to say. Anything else, nah. A knife is realistic, I admit, but a Bat easily beats that out unless thrown.

edited 22nd Dec '12 12:19:22 AM by Hydronix

Quest 64 thread
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44877: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:22:42 AM

Which doesn't happen if people are required to go through the same thing as the one holding the bat. That is, trained and evaluation.

Wait, why would you need training and evaluation to use a bat?

Anything else, nah. A knife is realistic, I admit, but a Bat easily beats that out unless thrown.

I was talking more about swords, machetes, and ridiculously long hedgeclippers.

edited 22nd Dec '12 12:24:14 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#44878: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:30:47 AM

Wait, why would you need training and evaluation to use a bat?

I'm talking about the so-called gun holder. If that was done properly, they most likely would not be breaking into your house. Not that things don't slip through the cracks, but it'd be much rarer if the appropriate measures were taken like we've been suggesting.

I was talking more about swords, machetes, and ridiculously long hedgeclippers.

So the last one, which is a realistic scenario that's even close to likely. A bat would do fine. If they somehow got in your house, which I doubt they could as is, unless it was unlocked, you have enough materials to stun them long enough to call 911. A bat definitely can defend you well enough.

Likewise, most of these scenarios are not that realistic. Could we stop bringing them up? The only one that would make sense under the idea that the tests were done, is a knife. Which, outside of throwing, would not be that useful for entering and attempted murder. Compared to a gun, anyway.

edited 22nd Dec '12 12:32:07 AM by Hydronix

Quest 64 thread
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#44879: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:38:05 AM

I wanted to ask how many people actually own swords, but then looked at my dad's military dress sword hanging on the wall. I'm pretty sure he had to actually wear that at formal things. Not that I'd think to grab that in a situation to defend myself because it's on the wall and I'd be inclined to swing something like my laptop or the mobile desk. But anyway a bat would be more practical than a knife because of range. You don't want an attacker getting close to you because it's pretty easy to grab the hand you're holding the knife with. A bat has some distance. In any case, most people hide and grab the nearest blunt object anyway.

But yeah, this is getting off topic. We can make a self defense thread that is about self defense scenarios. There may already be one. *shrug*

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#44880: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:43:15 AM

[up]Martial Arts Thread. Yack Fest. Go to it. I command it.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44881: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:45:55 AM

I'm talking about the so-called gun holder. If that was done properly, they most likely would not be breaking into your house. Not that things don't slip through the cracks, but it'd be much rarer if the appropriate measures were taken like we've been suggesting.

Not really.

Most criminals obtain guns through:

  • Relatives and friends.

  • Theft.

  • Drug Dealers.

  • The Black Market.

It wouldn't be 'slipping through the cracks' as it would be 'slipping through the giant gaping hole'.

Likewise, most of these scenarios are not that realistic. Could we stop bringing them up?

Hey, it happens.

edited 22nd Dec '12 12:53:23 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#44882: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:51:06 AM

I don't see how that refutes the "still rarer". Yes, of course there would still be them out there.

But even then, that's not as likely as you think it is. At all. Second, if more evaluations are already done, a lot of that won't exist soon enough. Lastly, as said, it's getting off-topic.

You don't need more than a bat in most cases, regardless, if the appropriate measures were taken beforehand. Plus, nobody even asserted that guns couldn't be bought for self-defense. But even a semi-automatic is going a bit far in this day and age. Anything more than a Handgun is overkill. Literally.

Lastly, if they already had a gun, you wouldn't have time to take out yours, so you having a gun for self-defense is kind of bull anyway. It wouldn't work out well most of the time. You're too slow compared to somebody already ready to fire.

But yes, let's move on. Self-defense wasn't the key topic related to the gun stuff anyway. I was just answering a strawman, so eh.

[up] I'm saying it's not a common enough occurrence to really think about. Rare scenarios are not worth considering here for the purposes of this discussion. That, and as I said, self-defense really only works for Handguns, nothing else currently. When they were made doesn't change anything. For self-defense, you want something your attacker cannot see right now. A huge gun will make it easy for them to kill you through a window, since they know what you have. You actually have a chance to fight back if you can pull the gun out later when they're not looking. Which makes it a legit self-defense weapon. As for Bats, once again, they work against everything that ain't a gun.

edited 22nd Dec '12 1:00:20 AM by Hydronix

Quest 64 thread
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44883: Dec 22nd 2012 at 12:51:18 AM

[up] I think Drug Dealer and Black Market can be the same thing, right?

Anyway, yes, straw purchases are the biggest source of illegal guns. So many guns are bought through legal means by people who pass background checks. This is how many guns find their way to Mexico to be used by cartels, etc.

There isn't as big a "Gunshow loophole" abuse as some would like to believe. A 4473 is still filled out and filed, etc. And it's all Private Party Transfer (you don't have to do anything at a gunshow).

Small arms funnelled into Mexico come from the United States, the big hardware (machine guns and such) come from South America.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44884: Dec 22nd 2012 at 1:01:35 AM

If I want a semiautomatic, and I'm willing to go through the legal requirements why can't I have one.

Also

"Lastly, if they already had a gun, you wouldn't have time to take out yours, so you having a gun for self-defense is kind of bull anyway. It wouldn't work out well most of the time. You're too slow compared to somebody already ready to fire."

This is completely dependent on the situation. If I hear someone breaking into my house, I'll have enough time to get my guns.

Also

But even then, that's not as likely as you think it is. At all.

I like how you didn't use any evidence to refute my statement.

For self-defense, you want something your attacker cannot see right now. A huge gun will make it easy for them to kill you through a window, since they know what you have. You actually have a chance to fight back if you can pull the gun out later when they're not looking. Which makes it a legit self-defense weapon. As for Bats, once again, they work against everything that ain't a gun.

Because a bat, is so much less visible than a large gun?

edited 22nd Dec '12 1:04:17 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#44885: Dec 22nd 2012 at 1:02:11 AM

For perspective.

ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44886: Dec 22nd 2012 at 1:07:25 AM

[up]

I have a graph.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#44887: Dec 22nd 2012 at 1:40:47 AM

[up] Your graph appears to only cover inmates and it from 1997, so I'm not sure if it's the most reliable source.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#44889: Dec 22nd 2012 at 2:45:08 AM

Booooo! Don't give in, Obama! Let the workers strike! Let the workers fight for their rights!

Also, that's not a link to the article. That's a link to the pie chart you linked in your previous post.

Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#44890: Dec 22nd 2012 at 2:49:05 AM

How can you regulate guns if they can be bought at flea markets and it's legal to borrow and give them to other people?

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#44891: Dec 22nd 2012 at 3:00:12 AM

@ Braeburn: Are the employers and Unions using the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service?

Keep Rolling On
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44892: Dec 22nd 2012 at 3:03:38 AM

[up][up][up]

I fixed the link.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44893: Dec 22nd 2012 at 5:14:45 AM

So, hypothetical Democrat replacements for John Kerry include:

Who do you want to see become the Democrat nominee?

edited 22nd Dec '12 5:38:14 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#44894: Dec 22nd 2012 at 5:52:46 AM

Speaking as a Brit, what the fuck kind of dystopian nightmare do you live in where armed guards in every school seem like a good idea?

edited 22nd Dec '12 5:53:03 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#44895: Dec 22nd 2012 at 5:55:16 AM

There hae been a lot of shootings in the US. Or the media make it look like.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44896: Dec 22nd 2012 at 6:06:09 AM

[up][up]

I don't know. The fun kind?

As an American, what kind of dystopian nightmare do you live in where your nation's citizens fell the need to put cameras everywhere.

edited 22nd Dec '12 6:07:53 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#44897: Dec 22nd 2012 at 6:10:07 AM

[up] The Orwellian kind?

"You can reply to this Message!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#44898: Dec 22nd 2012 at 6:11:22 AM

[up][up]

The Fear of a Frivolous Lawsuit. Well, that and an obsession with Health & Safety. And of course, a fear of crime and catching the criminals when it does happen...

edited 22nd Dec '12 6:16:52 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44899: Dec 22nd 2012 at 6:16:40 AM

[up]

So the dull and slightly geeky kind?

Its no dystopia, its a dorktopia.

edited 22nd Dec '12 6:18:52 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#44900: Dec 22nd 2012 at 6:19:19 AM

[up]

Its no dystopia, its a dorktopia.

Welcome to Britain.

You Can't Get Away with Nuthin'!

Anyway, Check the Useless Security Camera Trope Page — there might be lots of cameras, but how many are any good?

edited 22nd Dec '12 6:40:24 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

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