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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44726: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:07:04 PM

[up][up]Which means it will be even more expensive.

Seriously the money has to come from somewhere. Meanwhile banning assault rifles wouldn't cost a thing.

[up]Probably the school. Oh joy...

edited 21st Dec '12 4:07:27 PM by Kostya

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#44727: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:10:25 PM

if it costs $50,000 per officer per year, spread over the average town that'd cost no more than a dollar or two per citizen in most towns.

edited 21st Dec '12 4:11:25 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44728: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:13:48 PM

Even as a supporter of gun rights, the NRA response was atrocious. Shifting the blame because New Media Are Evil is just kind of... sad. They went silent for days, and that's about the best that they could come up with?

Epic Face Palm.

Shifting the blame to something else satellite to the person who committed the act is not how we should approach the problem.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#44729: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:14:04 PM

@Thorn: Sure, but why's everyone upset about them suggesting it? I mean, people called this "revolting," "very haunting and very disturbing," and "outrageous and wrong." That's a major overreaction to something that's actually a sort of good idea when the NRA has actually said stuff that has deserved that sort of response.

@Joe: Totally.

@Thorn: People. Through taxes. Like the rest of the police force is paid for.

@Kostaya: Why would the school pay for police? Wouldn't the police pay for it?

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44730: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:15:26 PM

Do you know how little funding schools and police get?

Republicans will NEVER support taxes.

Also people hate the idea because he basically said "the solution to gun violence in schools is more guns"

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44731: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:17:14 PM

Joesolo: Yeah but most districts have three or more schools. Mine has six. There are also costs associated with retirement benefits, equipment, etc. Police stations and tax payers are getting strained as is and if we're going to hire police I'd prefer they go out and stop actual criminals.

deathpigeon: It doesn't matter who pays for it since both groups are getting squeezed. I'm guessing it will be the school's responsibility though since most politicians probably care more about the police department than the school.

[up]To be fair it's a better solution than arming the teachers but I still doubt it will solve a damn thing. It will also be a lot more expensive than doing the simple thing which is banning assault weapons and requiring mandatory lessons for potential gun owners.

edited 21st Dec '12 4:18:29 PM by Kostya

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#44732: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:19:34 PM

@Joe: heres why that wont work.

Take my town for example. we have 6 school buildings. And a local political "group" named No-Mo Taxes (gert it, its Mo for missouri, haha), who's leader has made comments justifying not raising taxes to pay for school shit on various things.

The most famous being the time schools wanted to levy a tax so we could pay the contract with the company that runs the local school buses. His reply? "everyone should have to walk to school. it'll fix childhood obesity"

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44733: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:21:00 PM

Guy on MSNBC just said he says teachers should be required to be armed.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44734: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:21:38 PM

[up][up]I really hate insane Libertarians.

And they say MSNBC is a liberal shill network.

[up]Yeah, that will work out real well. Because every teacher is a marksman and is willing to shoot someone!

edit: Relevant.

edited 21st Dec '12 4:26:50 PM by Kostya

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#44735: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:28:39 PM

Our university has its own police with same power as any local police. But I know down to the elementary level, it might not be the same. I definitely think a police-equivalent security officer at each school would help.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44736: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:30:13 PM

Universities are able to collect tuition to fund those things. Schools have to rely on local taxes which probably won't pay for this as effectively.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#44737: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:30:42 PM

@Thorn: Well, we should be raising that anyway. I'm not saying that it's a solution that can happen. I'm saying it's one that should happen.

Also, this isn't solving the problem of guns with more guns. This is solving the problem of guns with trained professionals. There's a difference.

@Kostaya: Well, we should be giving both more funding anyway.

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#44738: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:33:25 PM

Yeah...I agree with the NRA here. Raise taxes, put policemen in the schools. I notice there are never shootings in airports.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#44739: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:36:27 PM

[up]

The thing is, most places wont raise taxes. Theyll just cut more funding from schools to avoid the wrath of angry NRA member rednecks who think taxes are the devil.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#44740: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:37:10 PM

I wouldn't say we should have a full police station or something at school; one or two officers per X number of students would be better.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44741: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:37:12 PM

[up][up][up]Watch the same people that say we should follow their example scream bloody murder when the government tries to raise taxes to pay for it.

edit: It would be entirely free to ban assault weapons and require proper safety classes to own guns.

[up]Per certain number of students? There are millions of students in the nation. That shit will get expensive fast.

edited 21st Dec '12 4:38:47 PM by Kostya

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#44742: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:37:59 PM

I understand...but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44743: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:39:34 PM

I will not allow them to gut school funding anymore. In fact I'd rather we raise taxes and increase funding to schools instead of hiring armed guards.

Fix the gun issue with sensible regulations.

edited 21st Dec '12 4:39:42 PM by Kostya

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#44744: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:47:34 PM

The only good thing about that MSNBC bit was that the interviewer was clearly taken aback and asked what would happen if the teacher didn't want to be armed. The guy responded he didn't want his kid being taught by them. Jesus, that's insane.

Republicans just won't raise taxes even when they want to spend money on something. It's fucking ridiculous.

@Deathpigeon: People are getting appalled because of the basic idea that schools aren't supposed to need that kind of defense. And also because it's damned costly and a solution that the people suggesting it aren't going to want to pay for. It's also a non solution due to the fact that it's treating a symptom rather than the cause. Which is culture, things like magazines allowing fifty bullets or however many are in those things, and lack of mental health care. Putting a bandage over a continually bleeding wound just covers it up without healing it, and that's what putting a policeman in every school basically does.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#44745: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:52:13 PM

I seriously don't get why people want to cut funding to schools. "Let's hurt the children and hurt their development, thus hurting their ability to take care of us in our old age. Why should I give money to something I don't directly take part in?"

Everyone is so short-sighted that it's insane.

edited 21st Dec '12 4:54:25 PM by Zendervai

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44746: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:55:28 PM

@Kostya: The question here is "like what?"

Background checks already cover psychological background and criminal background.

Safe storage laws already exist.

Carry laws already exist.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#44747: Dec 21st 2012 at 4:56:07 PM

@Ace: First, could you please not capitalize my name?

Anyway, have we not learned from the numerous school shootings that they do need some sort of defense? Also, I think we should also improve mental healthcare, put restrictions on guns, and promote a culture where guns and gun violence isn't seen as being ok. Just because there are underlying causes does not mean we shouldn't fix the symptoms in addition.

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44748: Dec 21st 2012 at 5:11:26 PM

The assumption is that gun violence is seen as okay, this is only because of the prevalence in movies and video games and the presentation of the media. Out of a hundred million gun owners, only a very small fraction of this growing number is related to gun violence or crime.

There have long been no Hollywood style shootouts. And to say that there is is just plain problematic.

It is seen as one step before another. Owning a gun is the last line of defense, when every other option has failed or been expended. Get rid of crime and violence, there will be less of a need for them.

People keep saying "more restrictions" without saying exactly how to do this without causing more harm than good? More psychological checks?

The idea that has been presented is to have mandatory psychological checks and prevent people from exercising their rights based on what they MIGHT do, rather than what they have done. Regardless of what is happening in the NDAA, we still have a process called Due Process.

edited 21st Dec '12 5:12:44 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44749: Dec 21st 2012 at 5:16:15 PM

Devil: Ban assault weapons, limit magazine capacities, require background checks on every person that buys them, make them wait three months before they are given the gun, make it mandatory for them to present a psychiatric evaluation from a qualified source, have police inspect the homes of those that buy guns to make sure they have a proper place to store it, require 40 hours of training in safe usage and target practice to obtain a license to own a gun, and probably a few more things I can't think of off the top of my head. Apply all this to gun shows and any outlet that sells guns.

Failure to do this will result in a fine and jail time for any parties that don't comply.

Also I may be overly draconian but I don't fucking care. The second amendment has the phrase well-regulated in it and it's harder to get a car than it is to get a gun. This would be that regulation.

[up]When you are asking to be entrusted with a deadly weapon you are going to be scrutinized and probed to hell and back. I fail to see how this is unreasonable when it could potentially save lives and will make it harder for nuts to get guns.

edited 21st Dec '12 5:17:52 PM by Kostya

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44750: Dec 21st 2012 at 5:21:14 PM

[up]

That's stupid. tongue

There's well regulated, and then there's over regulated. If your going to require all that, than most people will just start buying guns illegally.

And you could probably stop most nut jobs with the 3 month waiting period alone.

edited 21st Dec '12 5:26:54 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

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