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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Assuming all 201 Democrats follow the leader.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.The current "compromise"
that's on the table would cut future Social Security benefits and would include some tax increases, but only on people earning $1 million or more and with some exemptions that would disproportionately benefit the rich.
It's a poor man's bargain; it concedes much for very little gain.
Obama could gain almost as much by letting the fiscal cliff happen. A compromise that puts you in a worse position than the one you started in is no compromise at all.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"To be fair, Obama did say that he had the same position as Romney on Social Security.
The difference is that Romney would've cut its funding right off the bat, while Obama would reduce its benefits every year until it turns defunct.
edited 19th Dec '12 12:40:39 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.Lets face it, Obama is in a shitty situation right now.
He either has to compromise, or watch as America goes off the fiscal cliff, hurting EVERYONE.
Maybe Democrats can get a political victory from putting the blame on the Republicans, but what if Obama genuinely doesn't want us to go off the cliff, and is willing to compromise to make sure it doesn't happen?
Serocco, I refuse to give credence to your pessimistic appraisal of Obama as a neocon in Democrat clothing. He tried to pass stimulus, he tried to pass tax increases; he may be weaker than we'd prefer when it comes to these issues but he is not a Republican under false colors, and I wish you'd stop acting like he is.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
If by "neoconservative", you mean "war hawk", then yes, Obama is a neoconservative. Authorizing drone strikes, wanting to stay in Iraq, continuing to stay in Afghanistan, etc.
Also, he may have tried to pass (weaksauce) stimulus, but he also killed the Public Option.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:07:50 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.Roosevelt had to pass his agenda through Congress, just like Obama does. You seem to be ignoring that part of the equation. Clinton used American military force to pursue our policy goals. Every President in the 20th century has done that.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:02:41 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Except he doesn't have to compromise in this case. He has the leverage after the Americans rejected Romney (White House) and McConnell (Senate).
He can easily say "We'll see you at 2014" to Baehner, because the Republicans have taken some pretty big PR hits right now, ala Richard Mourdock and Todd Akin.
Our "policy goals" as it pertains to the military boils down to imperialism. All Presidents have that in mind.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:08:40 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.He has to at least appear to be willing to compromise even if he has no intention of doing so. People will blame the Republicans if we go over the cliff but if Obama makes it known that he wants this then they'll just turn around and blame him.
edit: And they will take a worse PR hit if we go over the cliff but that's only if Obama appears to be the rational one. Going "Fuck this, full speed ahead!" does not make him seem rational to moderates.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:08:40 PM by Kostya
Moderates don't matter. There's no such thing as a moderate liberal or a moderate conservative.
You're either one or the other. Your policies may have the "lite" suffice at the end, but they're still policies that your wing (left or right) advocates.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:10:30 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.And if you pick and choose from both sides? What do you call that person?
Meanwhile, the media is committed to maintaining the myth of the moderate political position and a good chunk of voters believe in it as a result.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
Uh, yeah they do. They're the entire reason Obama even won. Romney just didn't seem an attractive prospect to many middle class moderates so they went for the devil they knew.
edit: I am discussing moderate voters, not politicians. In practice pretty much almost all Democrats are moderates though that's only because the US is skewed too far right.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:14:06 PM by Kostya
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If you pick and choose from both sides, you're still classified by which policies you're more partial by.
Obama won because on the non-religious vote
. Not because of some random political moderates.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:15:30 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.You have some interesting personal definitions there, Serocco. I'm not sure we can communicate if you insist on them.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"My point is that Obama is every bit as conservative as Romney regarding the social programs, corporations and military policy.
However, even if Obama cuts the social programs, people will prefer to blame Baehner purely because Obama is a Democrat, the guys who are perceived as the "reasonable, compromise-leaning" ones.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.![]()
![]()
Hmmm. According to these figures
his percentage of the 'non-religious' vote dropped.
edited 19th Dec '12 1:24:12 PM by Bluesqueak
It ain't over 'till the ring hits the lava.Kostya: Are you proposing that Obama is faking the compromise attempt?

What are the odds that the Tea Party Caucus and other Republicans send us over the cliff by refusing a compromise Boehner accepts?
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.