TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#44451: Dec 19th 2012 at 11:53:42 AM

What are the odds that the Tea Party Caucus and other Republicans send us over the cliff by refusing a compromise Boehner accepts?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44452: Dec 19th 2012 at 11:57:47 AM

Very possible.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#44453: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:00:09 PM

You would need a large body of Republicans breaking with the Speaker for that to be possible, though.

There are 201 Democrats in the House. If they reach an agreement with the Speaker, chances are the coalition will have more votes than the Tea Party group.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#44455: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:08:02 PM

And since the Democrat party is the centrist one, they're the party that's more likely to break ranks.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44456: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:15:25 PM

The current "compromise" that's on the table would cut future Social Security benefits and would include some tax increases, but only on people earning $1 million or more and with some exemptions that would disproportionately benefit the rich.

It's a poor man's bargain; it concedes much for very little gain.

Obama could gain almost as much by letting the fiscal cliff happen. A compromise that puts you in a worse position than the one you started in is no compromise at all.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44457: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:32:55 PM

To be fair, Obama did say that he had the same position as Romney on Social Security.

The difference is that Romney would've cut its funding right off the bat, while Obama would reduce its benefits every year until it turns defunct.

edited 19th Dec '12 12:40:39 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44458: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:48:21 PM

Serocco, you act like ANY cut to social security is a path to kill it completely.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44459: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:49:20 PM

It is. Look at Fighteer's link about it.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44460: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:51:16 PM

Lets face it, Obama is in a shitty situation right now.

He either has to compromise, or watch as America goes off the fiscal cliff, hurting EVERYONE.

Maybe Democrats can get a political victory from putting the blame on the Republicans, but what if Obama genuinely doesn't want us to go off the cliff, and is willing to compromise to make sure it doesn't happen?

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44461: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:52:41 PM

Republicans don't want to compromise.

Democrats can say "See you in 2014". And then we go over the cliff.

Obama will not do that because he wants to slash benefits for the middle class and the poor.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#44462: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:53:32 PM

And, by compromising, he'll be hurting everyone too! That's what makes his situation so damn shitty. Compromising would basically have the same effect as going off the Fiscal Cliff without as much tax hikes on the wealthy or cuts to defense.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44463: Dec 19th 2012 at 12:59:18 PM

Serocco, I refuse to give credence to your pessimistic appraisal of Obama as a neocon in Democrat clothing. He tried to pass stimulus, he tried to pass tax increases; he may be weaker than we'd prefer when it comes to these issues but he is not a Republican under false colors, and I wish you'd stop acting like he is.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44464: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:00:02 PM

[up] If by "neoconservative", you mean "war hawk", then yes, Obama is a neoconservative. Authorizing drone strikes, wanting to stay in Iraq, continuing to stay in Afghanistan, etc.

Also, he may have tried to pass (weaksauce) stimulus, but he also killed the Public Option.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:07:50 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44465: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:01:37 PM

Roosevelt had to pass his agenda through Congress, just like Obama does. You seem to be ignoring that part of the equation. Clinton used American military force to pursue our policy goals. Every President in the 20th century has done that.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:02:41 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44466: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:02:27 PM

Except he doesn't have to compromise in this case. He has the leverage after the Americans rejected Romney (White House) and McConnell (Senate).

He can easily say "We'll see you at 2014" to Baehner, because the Republicans have taken some pretty big PR hits right now, ala Richard Mourdock and Todd Akin.

Our "policy goals" as it pertains to the military boils down to imperialism. All Presidents have that in mind.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:08:40 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44467: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:07:56 PM

He has to at least appear to be willing to compromise even if he has no intention of doing so. People will blame the Republicans if we go over the cliff but if Obama makes it known that he wants this then they'll just turn around and blame him.

edit: And they will take a worse PR hit if we go over the cliff but that's only if Obama appears to be the rational one. Going "Fuck this, full speed ahead!" does not make him seem rational to moderates.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:08:40 PM by Kostya

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44468: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:09:07 PM

Moderates don't matter. There's no such thing as a moderate liberal or a moderate conservative.

You're either one or the other. Your policies may have the "lite" suffice at the end, but they're still policies that your wing (left or right) advocates.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:10:30 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44469: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:12:45 PM

And if you pick and choose from both sides? What do you call that person?

Meanwhile, the media is committed to maintaining the myth of the moderate political position and a good chunk of voters believe in it as a result.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44470: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:13:24 PM

[up][up]Uh, yeah they do. They're the entire reason Obama even won. Romney just didn't seem an attractive prospect to many middle class moderates so they went for the devil they knew.

edit: I am discussing moderate voters, not politicians. In practice pretty much almost all Democrats are moderates though that's only because the US is skewed too far right.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:14:06 PM by Kostya

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44471: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:13:42 PM

[up][up]If you pick and choose from both sides, you're still classified by which policies you're more partial by.

[up]Obama won because on the non-religious vote. Not because of some random political moderates.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:15:30 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44472: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:16:01 PM

You have some interesting personal definitions there, Serocco. I'm not sure we can communicate if you insist on them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44473: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:20:30 PM

My point is that Obama is every bit as conservative as Romney regarding the social programs, corporations and military policy.

However, even if Obama cuts the social programs, people will prefer to blame Baehner purely because Obama is a Democrat, the guys who are perceived as the "reasonable, compromise-leaning" ones.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Bluesqueak Since: Jan, 2010
#44474: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:22:45 PM

[up][up][up]Hmmm. According to these figures his percentage of the 'non-religious' vote dropped.

edited 19th Dec '12 1:24:12 PM by Bluesqueak

It ain't over 'till the ring hits the lava.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#44475: Dec 19th 2012 at 1:25:06 PM

Kostya: Are you proposing that Obama is faking the compromise attempt?

A Huffington Post article raises a cynical suggestion for Rick Snyder's sudden turn against legislation to arm teachers:

Snyder, who has just completed his campaign to limit the rights and bargaining power of teachers, is probably smart not to take the workforce that he successfully made into a more impoverished underclass and turn them now into a heavily armed, more impoverished underclass.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Total posts: 417,856
Top