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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44276: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:37:20 PM

Good, let them revolt. Then we can remove them from the gene pool and get on with a sane national firearms policy. Also, while it is easy to make a gun, most street criminals don't have the necessary skills or resources to do so.

edited 18th Dec '12 2:38:08 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44277: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:39:12 PM

[up] It's not how it works. There's a lot of things going on there that would make guns ridiculously easy to manufacture.

@ Ace: I think you're not quite understanding this. A straw purchase means that there's a person buying the gun, a law-abiding citizen who will pass the background check. After the purchase, the gun is given to someone else. It is illegal. If they get caught, they can become a criminal, and they can no longer buy guns as a straw purchaser.

edited 18th Dec '12 2:40:49 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#44278: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:39:57 PM

Thorn, just because people would do illegal things once a law is in place doesn't mean you don't put the law in place. There's one article I read on the issue recently that basically said this in response: "That's like saying if we make murder and rape illegal only murderers will murder, and only rapists will rape." Part of the purpose of a law is to put a significant punishment in place to act as a deterrent, and to address injustice after it's happened.

@Fighteer: that sounds fairly reasonable to me, but I'm not fully versed in the legalities of the private sale of anything. I'd say that at the very least if you buy a gun from a private individual you have to take the time to get yourself officially registered as the new owner at some sort of registration office; the police station perhaps, or a gun store where they probably have all that stuff anyway.

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Wicked223 from Death Star in the forest Since: Apr, 2009
#44280: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:41:00 PM

by the way, since we were just talking about her, Megan McArdle is a bit a prick

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
Wicked223 from Death Star in the forest Since: Apr, 2009
#44282: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:43:59 PM

really? I didn't see.

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44283: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:45:58 PM

It was a few pages back and then it got buried by the discussion it caused.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#44284: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:50:54 PM

Fighteer, if you want guns to be banned, then answer me this. What makes banning guns any different from banning alcohol, marijuana, abortions, and other stuff that people have tried to ban and failed spectacularly at doing?

edited 18th Dec '12 2:58:03 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#44286: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:52:41 PM

[up][up]They are dangerous to more than one person?

edited 18th Dec '12 2:52:50 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44287: Dec 18th 2012 at 2:53:02 PM

edit: Oops. Wrong thread.

edited 18th Dec '12 2:53:24 PM by Kostya

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#44288: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:03:36 PM

Looking at that list, it seems that what we think of as school shootings (essentially Columbine, a massacre rather than a violent crime that happened to occur at a school) didn't start until the Fifties, and picked up from there.

It also seems like it's risen steadily until about the mid-Nineties, where it's hit our current (intolerable) rate.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#44289: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:03:46 PM

[up][up][up] So are cigarettes, and we were more successful at eliminating them by making them look uncool than trying to do an outright ban of them. Yeah, there are no smoking zones like there are gun-free zones, but if you are going to try to fix the problem the United States has with shootings, you need to change the view citizens of the United States have concerning guns first. The love of guns is practically ingrained in the culture, much like everyone in The '50s could be seen smoking a cigarette. Until the view of guns are changed, there is never going to be a real solution to the issue, which is the real tragedy.

edited 18th Dec '12 3:07:48 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#44290: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:07:12 PM

Guys. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. The explanation for school shootings is not easy gun access, or other gun-friendly countries would have as many as we do.

Now, gun control is a different matter, and I believe no civilian needs an assault rifle, but that's different. Banning assault rifles may be a good idea (banning all guns is stupid and unfeasible) but it won't stop the underlying problem, which is that these kinds of crimes keep happening.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#44291: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:12:10 PM

Personally, I think it is more an issue with mental health care myself. If we could get these would-be shooters the help they need before they massacre people, we could prevent these shootings from ever happening.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#44292: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:12:45 PM

Guns make it easier to commit violent crimes. One person with a gun is far more dangerous than one person with a knife.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44293: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:13:06 PM

[up] It's also the reason why guns are the most effective means of self-protection out there. There are many millions of law-abiding gun owners who have them, and only a small fraction who pervert their use. The issue is whether to punish the millions for the few thousands who act inappropriately.

[up][up][up] The problem here is that the definition of assault rifles has been perverted. The Department of Defense, and other definitions have always been that of a select-fire weapon capable of fully or burst fire. Under US law, a real assault rifle is a "machine gune." And getting a machine gun is extremely difficult.

The issue with trying to pick out assault rifles is that there is no practical difference between the semi-automatic rifle and that of many hunting rifles. Hunting rifles are also capable of holding scopes and large magazines.

The Clinton Assault Weapon Ban was seen as nothing more than a ban of cosmetic features in different configurations. It did nothing to stop bad guys from getting guns.

It's very easy to demonize "assault rifles" because they don't look like hunting rifles.

edited 18th Dec '12 3:19:34 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#44294: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:19:13 PM

I think we should be willing to sacrifice semi-automatic capability. It's too easily abused, and I don't think it's necessary for anything. You don't need multiple shots to hunt, you don't need them for self-defense. Why do you need them? That's a sincere question. Is there any reason?

@Lawyerdude: Plenty of things make it easier to kill people, many of which I have access to. And yet I've never killed anyone. And completely disarming all civilians makes life easier for lawbreakers. Plus, the Adam Lanzas of the world will simply go back to arson and bombs.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44295: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:22:19 PM

[up] That's also the issue of trying to ban magazine size. For self-defense, the questions readily and quickly escalate.

How many shots do you need to defend your self? Are you only being attacked by one person? What if you miss? What if you're being attacked by several people?

Semi-automatic also applies to older guns like revolvers.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
TenTailsBeast The Ultimate Lifeform from The Culture Since: Feb, 2012
#44296: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:24:32 PM

Is there any reason?

I think mostly people want to use them for recreational purposes.

I vowed, and so did you: Beyond this wall- we would make it through.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#44297: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:24:43 PM

All handguns in common use are semi-automatic. You cannot ban them without making personal self-defense with a firearm impossible, which is a step that we're unlikely to see.

A brighter future for a darker age.
majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#44298: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:25:36 PM

[up][up][up] If you're attacked by several people armed with guns, you should probably just give them what they want.

edited 18th Dec '12 3:25:47 PM by majoraoftime

Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#44299: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:27:26 PM

I think the list might include your death, though.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44300: Dec 18th 2012 at 3:27:37 PM

If you're attacked by multiple people you just give up. Good luck outgunning them unless you're some action movie hero.

[up]You'll probably die no matter what you do.

edited 18th Dec '12 3:28:09 PM by Kostya


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