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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44226: Dec 18th 2012 at 11:50:11 AM

And I thought I was pessimistic.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44227: Dec 18th 2012 at 11:51:46 AM

Can you honestly say, with Congress' track record, that anything will occur?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44228: Dec 18th 2012 at 11:54:45 AM

Only if we stay quiet and have an attitude like that.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#44229: Dec 18th 2012 at 11:58:32 AM

Even when we're screaming at the top of our lungs, Congress hasn't done a thing.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44230: Dec 18th 2012 at 11:58:38 AM

We've proven in the election that sufficient outrage from the general population can have results. Now we need to focus that. Outrage drives change; people don't raise their voices when they are content. We lose only by remaining complacent.

edited 18th Dec '12 11:58:55 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44231: Dec 18th 2012 at 12:23:20 PM

[up] It's the same argument in the gun community, which is why you often see "action" by NRA supporters, as well as those who are anti-gun.

It's a brainless, thoughtless idea to say that teachers need to be armed. It's as much a kneejerk reaction as banning guns or accessories, which is why you see both sides of the fence opening up at the same time. It's a predictable pattern.

edited 18th Dec '12 12:23:35 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#44232: Dec 18th 2012 at 12:35:14 PM

CNN actually has a handful of articles discussing whether or not this massacre will be different in its impact on gun control. Worth checking out at least.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#44233: Dec 18th 2012 at 12:48:35 PM

Oh, wonderful: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57559809-10391739/fast-and-furious-gun-found-at-mexican-crime-scene/

guns from fast and furious found where a recent shootout took place between reported Sinaloa drug cartel members and the Mexican military, in which Sinaloa beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and four others were killed.

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#44234: Dec 18th 2012 at 12:52:12 PM

Its only a matter of time before heads start to roll at ATF and whoever else was responsible for this. Wasn't a bad idea on paper but the execution (pun not intended) leaves something to be desired.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#44235: Dec 18th 2012 at 12:58:22 PM

I think The Onion had the right, if tragic, take on this sort of thing back in July after the shooting in the movie theater: Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out

For most people now, horrible acts of violence and killer natural disasters have basically become part of the expectations of life. So much so that anybody who is media-savvy enough can predict, with astonishing accuracy, exactly how the politicians, preachers and pundits are going to react, and people will yell at each other and point fingers for a few weeks, until some other new tragedy captures our attention, only for the previous one to rapidly fade into "yesterday's news".

It's happened before, it will happen again, and it totally sucks.

edited 18th Dec '12 12:58:57 PM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44236: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:02:30 PM

From what I understand, Fast and Furious was nothing like what has been said about it in media. It was an attempt to track activity that was already occurring.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44237: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:02:39 PM

[up] Fast and Furious was based around the idea of artificially inflating the problem beyond what was already occurring in order to track them down. Turned out very very bad.

Walmart and Dick's Sporting Goods have decided to run for cover as well. One of the largest online shooting sports retailers, Cheaper Than Dirt, has also pulled it's firearm sales off their website.

Diane Feinstein declared to institute anti-gun legislation in the wake of the shooting, but no one knows exactly what that will entail, since it will be a few more weeks to see what would be introduced in the Senate. So it is hard to react or discuss what that might entail.

There is a dark side to discussing gun rights and control right now.

edited 18th Dec '12 1:05:37 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44239: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:10:51 PM

And didn't Fast and Furious originate under Bush? Why is Obama taking heat for it, other than that the Right insists on refusing to acknowledge that Bush even existed.

edited 18th Dec '12 1:11:14 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#44240: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:13:01 PM

Fast And Furious started in 2009, in the Obama presidency.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#44241: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:14:24 PM

It went from 2006 to 2011. So a little of it was during his presidency. That and they love blaming him for things Bush did.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44242: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:17:10 PM

They also love blaming him for things he failed to stop. Honestly that would be a valid point except for one thing. They are the ones preventing him from stopping them!

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44243: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:18:24 PM

F&F was a continuation of an earlier program. Quite frankly, I see little in that article to suggest that the program was such a horrific scandal. It sounds more like the Justice Department and ATF working to arrest the people at the top of the gun smuggling food chain rather than at the bottom. That it became such a big deal appears to be largely the work of Fox News looking for shit to fling at Obama.

Edit: From the way Fox and other conservatives describe the program, it sounds like Obama was personally walking into gun shops and buying assault rifles to send to Mexican drug lords, no strings attached.

edited 18th Dec '12 1:21:17 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#44244: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:20:28 PM

@Karkadinn

1.) That wasn't my point. At all.

2.) PM me if you want to talk about it.

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44245: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:20:52 PM

Project Gunrunner consisted of two phases - Operation Wide Receiver (2006-2009) and then Project Fast And Furious (2009-2011), and the Gunwalking scandal is better known as the latter because that's what it was when it was first reported and why Obama is taking the heat for it (because it happened on his watch, basically).

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44246: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:22:25 PM

Also, the reason it was even possible to obtain and smuggle all those weapons in the first place is the lax gun buying laws in many states. The article states that one reason why the JD didn't permit arrests in many of the straw buyer cases was that the laws were so loose that they would get token, if any, prison sentences.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44247: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:29:57 PM

What became contentious is that one of the ATF offices actually told gun sellers to sell to potential straw purchasers, even if those merchants suspected something wrong. They also forgot to tell the Mexican side of the border about the Operation what they were trying to do.

The accusations are that the ATF was attempting to boost statistics to "prove" that American guns are arming the Mexican drug cartels and to further budget and political objectives.

edited 18th Dec '12 1:33:46 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44248: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:34:03 PM

And that this is somehow Obama's fault, let us not forget. I don't mind administering appropriate consequences to the departments and/or people responsible for the scandal, but I do care that (a) the right people are blamed; (b) the scandal is based on facts.

All this effort to lay blame at Obama's feet for the screwups of the government on his watch smack of distraction gambits designed to deflect criticism from the GOP policies that led to most of said screwups in the first place. I mean, you have Fox News calling for Obama's head over Benghazi when how many U.S. deaths occurred on Bush's watch?

edited 18th Dec '12 1:38:35 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#44249: Dec 18th 2012 at 1:35:41 PM

There's some cause to believe that the DOJ was slow to admit to having screwed up, which I can well believe, but that's standard procedure under any administration.

A brighter future for a darker age.

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