Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
We've proven in the election that sufficient outrage from the general population can have results. Now we need to focus that. Outrage drives change; people don't raise their voices when they are content. We lose only by remaining complacent.
edited 18th Dec '12 11:58:55 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
It's the same argument in the gun community, which is why you often see "action" by NRA supporters, as well as those who are anti-gun.
It's a brainless, thoughtless idea to say that teachers need to be armed. It's as much a kneejerk reaction as banning guns or accessories, which is why you see both sides of the fence opening up at the same time. It's a predictable pattern.
edited 18th Dec '12 12:23:35 PM by DevilTakeMe
Glove and Boots is good for Blog!Oh, wonderful: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57559809-10391739/fast-and-furious-gun-found-at-mexican-crime-scene/
guns from fast and furious found where a recent shootout took place between reported Sinaloa drug cartel members and the Mexican military, in which Sinaloa beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and four others were killed.
“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”I think The Onion had the right, if tragic, take on this sort of thing back in July after the shooting in the movie theater: Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out
For most people now, horrible acts of violence and killer natural disasters have basically become part of the expectations of life. So much so that anybody who is media-savvy enough can predict, with astonishing accuracy, exactly how the politicians, preachers and pundits are going to react, and people will yell at each other and point fingers for a few weeks, until some other new tragedy captures our attention, only for the previous one to rapidly fade into "yesterday's news".
It's happened before, it will happen again, and it totally sucks.
edited 18th Dec '12 12:58:57 PM by Lawyerdude
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.From what I understand, Fast and Furious was nothing like what has been said about it in media. It was an attempt to track activity that was already occurring.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fast and Furious was based around the idea of artificially inflating the problem beyond what was already occurring in order to track them down. Turned out very very bad.
Walmart
and Dick's Sporting Goods
have decided to run for cover as well. One of the largest online shooting sports retailers, Cheaper Than Dirt, has also pulled it's firearm sales off their website.
Diane Feinstein declared to institute anti-gun legislation in the wake of the shooting, but no one knows exactly what that will entail, since it will be a few more weeks to see what would be introduced in the Senate. So it is hard to react or discuss what that might entail.
There is a dark side to discussing gun rights and control right now.
edited 18th Dec '12 1:05:37 PM by DevilTakeMe
Glove and Boots is good for Blog!http://www.theonion.com/articles/fuck-everything-nation-reports,30743/
The Onion is really good at this.
And didn't Fast and Furious originate under Bush? Why is Obama taking heat for it, other than that the Right insists on refusing to acknowledge that Bush even existed.
edited 18th Dec '12 1:11:14 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Fast And Furious started in 2009
, in the Obama presidency.
F&F was a continuation of an earlier program. Quite frankly, I see little in that article to suggest that the program was such a horrific scandal. It sounds more like the Justice Department and ATF working to arrest the people at the top of the gun smuggling food chain rather than at the bottom. That it became such a big deal appears to be largely the work of Fox News looking for shit to fling at Obama.
Edit: From the way Fox and other conservatives describe the program, it sounds like Obama was personally walking into gun shops and buying assault rifles to send to Mexican drug lords, no strings attached.
edited 18th Dec '12 1:21:17 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Project Gunrunner consisted of two phases - Operation Wide Receiver (2006-2009) and then Project Fast And Furious (2009-2011), and the Gunwalking scandal is better known as the latter because that's what it was when it was first reported and why Obama is taking the heat for it (because it happened on his watch, basically).
Glove and Boots is good for Blog!Also, the reason it was even possible to obtain and smuggle all those weapons in the first place is the lax gun buying laws in many states. The article states that one reason why the JD didn't permit arrests in many of the straw buyer cases was that the laws were so loose that they would get token, if any, prison sentences.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"What became contentious is that one of the ATF offices actually told gun sellers to sell to potential straw purchasers, even if those merchants suspected something wrong. They also forgot to tell the Mexican side of the border about the Operation what they were trying to do.
The accusations are that the ATF was attempting to boost statistics to "prove" that American guns are arming the Mexican drug cartels and to further budget and political objectives.
edited 18th Dec '12 1:33:46 PM by DevilTakeMe
Glove and Boots is good for Blog!And that this is somehow Obama's fault, let us not forget. I don't mind administering appropriate consequences to the departments and/or people responsible for the scandal, but I do care that (a) the right people are blamed; (b) the scandal is based on facts.
All this effort to lay blame at Obama's feet for the screwups of the government on his watch smack of distraction gambits designed to deflect criticism from the GOP policies that led to most of said screwups in the first place. I mean, you have Fox News calling for Obama's head over Benghazi when how many U.S. deaths occurred on Bush's watch?
edited 18th Dec '12 1:38:35 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"This is stupider then wanting guns in schools. Just charge straight at the shooter! It's not like that makes it impossible for the shooter to miss you when he's waving an automatic weapon around!

And I thought I was pessimistic.