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Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#44126: Dec 16th 2012 at 2:48:54 PM

^

Ethanol was a fuel source waaaaaay back when cars were first starting up and gas stations weren't widespread. People were just looking for whatever would get their engines running back then. But for similar reasons, it obviously fell out of favor.

...but back then, they weren't emissions controls or a need for a high mpg. It's the increased precision and electronic control that leads to problems these days with non-standard fuels.

Anyway, here is the Wikipedia section on Ethanol Fuel Technology. Ethanol does require different engine design and significantly different storage.

Keep Rolling On
RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#44127: Dec 16th 2012 at 3:54:22 PM

I've heard that ethanol, while more renewable, is just as bad when it comes to emissions. Any truth to that?

edited 16th Dec '12 4:07:25 PM by RTaco

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#44128: Dec 16th 2012 at 3:55:52 PM

It still makes carbon dioxide, yes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44129: Dec 16th 2012 at 3:58:56 PM

I think that hydrogen fuel is just about the only thing that you can "burn" and not get CO2.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44130: Dec 16th 2012 at 4:05:07 PM

[up][up][up] It's complicated. The refineries to make ethanol still generate carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses, and the difference is between coal and "eco-friendly wood chips".

And then it depends on your car, as older cars aren't really meant to run with ethanol, while new ones are, etc. etc. etc. Lot of factors go into that.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#44131: Dec 16th 2012 at 4:29:09 PM

[up][up] Pretty much. seeing as the shit is literally everywhere, we really should be using it more by now.

I'm baaaaaaack
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44132: Dec 16th 2012 at 4:56:51 PM

Might take awhile for fuel-cells to get going. Hydrogen requires a new set up for storing and transporting hydrogen (more emmissions required for the process) plus costs.

To my knowledge, there's only like two hydrogen fuel stations in the country. Maybe more, since it's been a little bit of time.

Chicken and the egg. Do we need the cars set up first? Or the fuel stations?

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#44133: Dec 16th 2012 at 5:29:43 PM

[up] you'll either need the stations first, or you'll need home-systems. cant use the cars without a way to fuel them.

IMO, just subsidize the gas stations to install the needed equipment. or some kind of loan system where they pay back once it's profitable.

edited 16th Dec '12 5:30:39 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44134: Dec 16th 2012 at 6:00:37 PM

Report: Obama to Likely Nominate Chuck Hagel for Secretary of Defense

Now this is interesting.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#44135: Dec 16th 2012 at 6:16:54 PM

Anyone else seen Obama's speech at Newtown?

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#44136: Dec 16th 2012 at 6:23:16 PM

Link for those who want to watch it.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#44137: Dec 16th 2012 at 7:33:18 PM

That was a good speech,depressing certainly,..but still very moving.

What was only depressing,and not in any way moving or felt however were the comments.

How could I have been so naive?

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44138: Dec 16th 2012 at 8:00:55 PM

Governor says Pennsylvania won't set up Obamacare health exchange.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#44139: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:09:14 PM

Which is exactly the same thing we've been hearing from nearly every other state. And the only result will be a federal set up for the exchange, taking the whole thing out of the state's hands ultimately. I don't think this is going to go in the Republicans' favor?

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#44140: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:26:39 PM

I think that hydrogen fuel is just about the only thing that you can "burn" and not get CO 2.

I'm pretty sure anything you burn with carbon in it going to result in CO 2.

Fight smart, not fair.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44141: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:28:56 PM

H2 can be converted into H though, right?

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#44142: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:36:07 PM

? Hydrogen gas is naturally diatomic. Hydrogen gas is H2. H on it's own will start bonding to things.

Would you like an explanation of the chemistry?

Fight smart, not fair.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#44143: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:38:41 PM

BTW Here's an update of Obamacare's implementation by State and Territory:

Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming have refused to implement Obamacare by refusing to set up exchanges — thus ensuring that the federal government sets them up instead.

California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Mexico, New York, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, Washington D.C., and West Virginia will all implement Obamacare at a State level.

Arkansas, Delaware, Illinois, and North Carolina have engaged in hybrid Federal-state partnerships to implement Obamacare.

Utah is an odd one. It implemented a health insurance exchange before the federal Affordable Care Act was passed to help small businesses obtain insurance coverage for their employees. Utah Governor Gary Herbert is asking President Barack Obama to approve the state's health insurance exchange and declare that it meets the requirements of the federal health overhaul.

The American Samoa, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands are all exempt. Although that might change for Puerto Rico due to its recent vote for statehood.

In total that means that:

27 States will have the Federal Government set up Obamacare.

18 States and Washington D.C. will set up Obamacare by themselves.

4 States will work with the Federal Government to set up Obamacare.

And Utah doesn't know what it will do.

edited 16th Dec '12 10:06:32 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#44144: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:40:38 PM

@Ace of Spades: I really fucking hope you're right about that - I want my fucking affordable healthcare, dammit!!! If South Carolina ain't gonna give me something I not just need, but deserve as a fucking citizen, then I ain't dying for this state or its BS.

The feds better fucking step in and do their job in this regard if they want any reason for me not to turn on them when things get bad enough, especially with something that needs to be and be made much cheaper than it is now like proper healthcare coverage!

If it sounds like I'm angry about this, you fucking bet I am! South Carolina lost any respect I had for it (which was little to none) when they decided to opt out of something everyone in this state desperately needs if one were to read up on healthcare issues about this state and how we're the worst down here at everything, regarding said subject...

[up]My opinion on this? Anyone in power right now who refuses Obamacare is fucking scum and only looking out for big money as far as I'm concerned! Especially those states that suffer from obesity, lack of women's healthcare for BS religious noise, lack of Medicaid/Medicare resources, high death percentages from preventable injuries/diseases, etc. THERE ARE NO UPSIDES TO OPPOSING OBAMACARE. Cold. Hard. Truth!!! I sure as fuck ain't serving nor dying for this country if I can't get access to decent healthcare, period!

edited 16th Dec '12 9:45:33 PM by LostAnarchist

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#44145: Dec 16th 2012 at 9:45:01 PM

Utah from what I've read meets the requirements of the bill. I can understand why they'd just want to keep the same infrastructure they have in place if it already meets the legal requirements. It's a waste of money to rebuild it again from scratch.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#44146: Dec 16th 2012 at 11:21:30 PM

This state thing is just a headache and is dumb.

Lascoden ... from Missouri, USA Since: Nov, 2012
...
#44147: Dec 17th 2012 at 1:37:20 AM

Will there be any major differences between the state-run and federal-run versions of the system?

boop
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#44148: Dec 17th 2012 at 2:18:35 AM

Probably the federal version is funded by Congress instead of state government, and the GOP in Washington is likely going to try and defund the program into dust to "prove" government doesn't work.

edited 17th Dec '12 2:19:21 AM by PotatoesRock

Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#44149: Dec 17th 2012 at 4:37:49 AM

Not all biofuels have ethanol. It's definetly worth checking out other options before doing the work to make all cars so that they can handle ethanol.

For an example: NExBTL has been used as Aviation Fuel.

edited 17th Dec '12 4:45:16 AM by Qeise

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#44150: Dec 17th 2012 at 7:03:22 AM

Ethanol is currently problematic as a biofuel, though, mostly because the existing subsidy structure favors using corn ethanol, which is the definition of a wasteful boondoggle.

I hope Algenol turns out to be a success; from everything I've read about it *

, it sounds too good to be true.


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