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Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43801: Dec 14th 2012 at 1:52:30 PM

[up][up][up][up] It wont stop crazy bastards.

We should have a smart system, I've talked with others about this. Federal run, back ground checks and at least 2 mental health evaluations before you can own ANY gun.

[up] I like that Idea. or at least some kind of mandatory civil service.

edited 14th Dec '12 1:53:19 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#43802: Dec 14th 2012 at 1:53:43 PM

[up] Well, yes, but they don't have occupying forces all over the globe like we do. I'd rather have seasoned professionals behind the trigger.

they're assigning blame to video games (as usual) and... social networking media like, they specifically mentioned, Facebook.

Well, I feel bad for the news anchors, personally. I mean look at it from their perspective. Guns are untouchable and there were no Negroes involved.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43803: Dec 14th 2012 at 1:55:45 PM

[up] What do you mean by that?(the "negros" part)

edited 14th Dec '12 1:56:03 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#43804: Dec 14th 2012 at 1:57:47 PM

It was sarcasm, obviously.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#43805: Dec 14th 2012 at 1:59:11 PM

[up][up][up] Honestly, people are getting sent out in their first year of conscription as it is. Having more people in the military could mean that we have the luxury of sending out old hands without leaving the homefront completely unguarded.

edited 14th Dec '12 1:59:17 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#43806: Dec 14th 2012 at 1:59:48 PM

I think they're trying too hard to have something to say and they're basically spewing out lies without fact checking. This is why we need laws about truth in media.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#43807: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:02:13 PM

Fighteer: I am not blaming the gun. I'm blaming the society that makes it easier for him to get the gun thus making it easier to kill more people.

Drunk Girlfriend: Really? Interesting. I'm not exactly for that but I think to own a gun you need to be part of some special unit similar to the national guard. Guns are fine if the militia that wields them is truly well-regulated and not just random people that want them.

Joesolo: Key word in that is that he injured them. This man killed...what 18?

Big difference.

edit: Reading further it appears there have been cases where multiple children were killed. It's still possible he could have killed more with a gun.

edited 14th Dec '12 2:04:47 PM by Kostya

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#43809: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:03:54 PM

[up][up] At the very least, I think there needs to be some sort of training that should happen before you can purchase firearms.

Mandatory conscription would just help with a lot of other problems too, like the healthcare debate (everyone gets VA benefits!).

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#43810: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:04:45 PM

"Why should I need a license for a gun if criminals don''t need one?"

/giveup

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#43811: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:05:52 PM

[up]Because we want to make sure you're not an idiot.

[up][up]I also think people that are registered in this group need to undergo psychiatric evaluations regularly just to be sure.

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#43812: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:07:58 PM

[up] Well, that's harder to implement since mental health in this country is prohibitively expensive. But you do get them in military service, so that'd be covered under my model too. tongue

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43813: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:10:55 PM

The article that chihuahua linked in #43808 more or less describes my feelings in the matter.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#43814: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:12:21 PM

When I was working this summer near the border on the Canadian side, I had to listen to a guy rant about how his gun got confiscated at the border crossing and how requiring a license 'would destroy our great nation'. To get him to leave, I just quietly explained how a gun license was required in Canada, had been required for quite a long time and Canada was doing fine. I used a similar argument whenever anyone complained about Obamacare.

Granted, we make up for it in other horrible ways.

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#43815: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:12:22 PM

@ Kostya: The problem here is that the person buying the gun might not be an idiot, it's the person who winds up with the gun anyway who could be. For instance, the guy who shot up that Mall in Oregon a couple days ago stole the gun he used.

Most criminals get their guns through straw purchases, meaning guns that they didn't buy themselves, but had someone else buy for them. A girlfriend, their brother, mothers, fathers, friends, etc. People with clean records, sound minds, but might be too forgiving when it comes to a close loved one.

Anyway, I'm against the idea of tying rights with some sort of mandatory service or psychological evaluation beforehand. There are already laws on the books that deny the right to own firearms to anyone who has an existing psychiatric problem or a criminal record, etc. And it's hard enough getting those enforced.

There are factors which would disqualify many people from serving, including physical limitations. My neighbor is handicapped from a grievous back injury and can't work the jobs he was trained for now, nevermind the sort of work required for the military. But I see him on the street, and he's more vulnerable than anyone else, and has more need to be able to defend himself than anyone I know, including myself.

It's easy to say, "we can make an exception for him." It's a slippery slope.

edited 14th Dec '12 2:12:57 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43816: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:14:28 PM

@kosta- injured can easily become killed.

I'm baaaaaaack
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#43817: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:14:34 PM

Drunk Girlfriend: Make it required for coverage by all health plans if Obamacare doesn't do that already.

Fighteer: Indeed.

I have actually changed my position somewhat from reading that. Since it's going to be impossible to remove guns entirely this sounds like a good middle ground.

[up][up]Well do something. It's not a perfect solution but it's better then doing fucking nothing.

edit: Then make incredibly stiff penalties for loaning the gun. As for children I wouldn't object to them and anybody else living in the house being required to go to safety classes of some sort.

edit 2: If anything having children go through this things would work out better in the long run since they'll treat them as deadly weapons rather than cool toys that are meant to be played with.

[up]I know but it's not as likely. Guns are the most effective weapon you can get for short and long range and arming everyone risks making things worse.

edited 14th Dec '12 2:18:39 PM by Kostya

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#43818: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:15:01 PM

I agree completely with that article as well. You all know I'm a flaming socialist leaning liberal. But I dont give two shits about people owning guns.

I give two shits about people who havent been taught basic firearms safety like "NEVER POINT AT A HUMAN EVEN WHILE JOKING" or "ITS ALWAYS LOADED EVEN WHEN IT ISNT" having guns.

I have more than a few friends who own guns. One of my friends and classmates in my photography classes owns a shotgun and shoots for the school skeet shooting team. She also knows full well her gun is not a toy to be waving around irresponsibly.

edited 14th Dec '12 2:16:27 PM by Midgetsnowman

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43819: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:18:15 PM

I'd say that the solutions for straw purchases are whatever are to also make it illegal to buy guns as a gift. Or at the very least the one purchasing it is required to have the one they're purchasing it for go through all the same rigmarole as someone buying it for themselves. And make sure that person it's a gift for is licensed.

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#43820: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:19:44 PM

@Kostya: Even with Obamacare, healthcare in general is still prohibitively expensive, doubly so for mental health care.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43821: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:20:30 PM

[up]Hopefully we'll see costs go down as more of Obamacare's policies go into effect.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43822: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:21:54 PM

There are some cost-reducing strategies in Obamacare but not as much as a full expansion of Medicaid and/or granting Medicare the ability to negotiate on prices would provide.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#43823: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:22:49 PM

[up][up] That's the hope.

@Devil Take Me: Actually, in the Nordic model, people who are unable to meet basic physical standards to actively serve still get conscripted. They just get stuck on desk duty or something that they can do.

edited 14th Dec '12 2:22:57 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#43824: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:25:42 PM

I agree with that article. If you're ok with driving licenses because a car could kill someone if used improperly, why would having the same requirement for a weapon that is specifically made to kill be a problem?

Also, I love the "if you outlaw murder, only outlaws will murder!" line. I'm flabbergasted that some people think that these ignorant, meaningless slogans constitute an argument of any sort.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#43825: Dec 14th 2012 at 2:27:52 PM

I've always argued that properly licensing and regulating guns makes a tonne of sense for the US. smile

I've honestly never seen how it breaks the second amendment when people have tried to explain that to me.


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