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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43626: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:39:46 AM

Yeah, lots of people. It's going to be hard to dispel that entirely until it's legalized and seen as normal as tobacco is.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43627: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:41:11 AM

I've always suspected that one reason so many people oppose the legalization of Marij is that it's so closely associated with the Slacker lifestyle, and small "c" conservative people cant stand that.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#43628: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:44:03 AM

Another thing I like with Canada is that with the current laws against mari, there's almost no consequences for using it.

At least, it helps people to actually understand what's going on when they see someone in their neighbours/friends/families that does it without ruining their lifes.

Although to be honest, I do see some people who could slack on the thing, but dont we all.

edited 12th Dec '12 10:46:27 AM by QuestionMarc

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#43629: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:48:09 AM

@ Ace:

It's going to be hard to dispel that entirely until it's legalized and seen as normal as tobacco is.

I wonder what happens when (at last) tobacco is banned? Will cannabis and tobacco swap places?

edited 12th Dec '12 10:48:51 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43630: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:07:44 AM

Ahahaha, what makes you think tobacco will ever be banned? I think the most they'll do is what they've already done, restrict smoking in public places so as not to cause a nuisance.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43631: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:13:14 AM

The push has been to make smoking inconvenient and unpopular, not illegal. It's actually a very smart way to reduce smoking, as you get peer pressure to do your work for you.

Rather than making something illegal, so that people will do it in defiance of the law, you say, "You can do it, but just over there. And you smell disgusting."

[down] Someone with a tendency towards addictive behavior will find something to get addicted to, whether it's legal or not. In most cases it is the behavior itself that's destructive as much as the thing that's being abused, which is why addiction should be dealt with via treatment, not punishment.

edited 12th Dec '12 11:15:41 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#43632: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:13:18 AM

[up][up][up][up] I know someone who ruined his life, but it was more that he would slack off and smoke marijuana rather than, you know, study or maintain a job. And yes, I know he's an outlier as abuse of pretty much anything can ruin your life.

[up] You also get things like the ban on smoking in any public building in Ontario which makes it such a pain to smoke, especially in the winter, that people will quit rather than try to feed their habit during a blizzard.

edited 12th Dec '12 11:15:58 AM by Zendervai

QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#43633: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:17:23 AM

[up] It's all about attitude man. I'm just saying that Mari isn't an automatic "fail-your-life" drug.

[up][up] Public shaming is an underrated tool if you ask me. Not just about Tobacco, for plenty of things.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43634: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:31:10 AM

@Zend: Alcohol and tobacco arent seen as controversial because the public perception is that they dont interfere with a person's productivity. ie "It's ok to abuse yourself, as long as you work hard and are responsible". Marij is seen more often as a rejection of that ethic, with, as you point out, some basis in fact, so a clash over cultural values come into the equation.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43635: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:32:08 AM

In fact, there's substantial evidence that marijuana being illegal is almost entirely an attack on the culture rather than on the drug itself.

edited 12th Dec '12 11:32:19 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#43636: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:35:48 AM

@ Fighteer:

Rather than making something illegal, so that people will do it in defiance of the law, you say, "You can do it, but just over there. And you smell disgusting."

Well, its a bit more then that, with Scare 'Em Straight Campaigns, banning display of cigarettes in shops and a drive towards plain packaging of cigarettes. Oh yes, and minimum pricing*

for alcohol.

Keep Rolling On
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43637: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:39:00 AM

@Fighteer: Cool! Links?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#43638: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:40:26 AM

Romney and Perry specifically wanted to make cuts to education. Perry wanted, as part of his bid for president, to do away with the Department of Education. He's made several cuts to education here in Texas. At one point, he took money away from the funds for education and GAVE IT AS A SUBSIDY TO OIL COMPANIES

The shock and horror at learning about the real GOP is starting to wear off. I'm getting numb to learning just how much they don't give a shit about anything they say they care about.

edited 12th Dec '12 11:40:36 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#43639: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:41:47 AM

[up]

Mm. welcome to the mindset most of us live in.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#43640: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:44:40 AM

Eyup. Seeing just what all they can get up to in the name of whatever is quite discouraging.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43641: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:46:37 AM

Maxima, I have no idea what the fuck you were watching during the Republican primaries. They flat out said this during their campaigns. On live TV. In both debates and speeches. Or were you just not watching those? Did you just not research their positions on things that supposedly matter to you?

These are serious questions, man.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43642: Dec 12th 2012 at 12:00:06 PM

@De Marquis: It's all stuff I read ages ago, but I'd have to do a lot of research to dig it up. Currently, the primary beneficiary (and thus proponent) of the War on Drugs is the private prison system. The pushback against "slacker culture" is still one factor but it's hardly the only one, and plenty of productive, famous people are known to smoke or have smoked marijuana.

In fact, I'm one of the few people I know who hasn't smoked it, or indeed taken any illegal drug, ever. In my case it's not a moral issue so much as a concern for my health, and perhaps a slavish sense of obedience to the law. That plus a more visceral reason for not smoking, which is the reluctance to put things in my mouth that are, or recently have been, on fire.

edited 12th Dec '12 12:09:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#43643: Dec 12th 2012 at 1:26:30 PM

I have to admit, the biggest reason I don't drink is because it tastes terrible and makes me fall asleep instead of get drunk. The biggest reason that I've never smoked anything is because second hand smoke makes me cough hard enough that I've had to get help from EM Ts. After all of that, I have no desire to try anything harder.

Public shaming of drug users is one of the best tools we have in our arsenal. Combine it with completely legalizing use and putting people into treatment programs when they need help and you have most of your work done for you.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43644: Dec 12th 2012 at 1:42:30 PM

Completely legalizing it just to fight it with other means is just insane. changing punishments for the crime is what you want.

and while I can see an argument for legalizing marijuana(I'm against it but i see some points), legalizing thinks like cocaine and heroin can not be allowed.

I'm baaaaaaack
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#43645: Dec 12th 2012 at 1:50:28 PM

OOC, are there still people who believe that mari is a "gateway" drug before getting on thougher drugs?

Yes. Having seen it in action with most of my college dorm.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#43646: Dec 12th 2012 at 1:51:23 PM

^Yes, but from what I know it's purely statistical quirks with no basis in actual medicine.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#43647: Dec 12th 2012 at 1:55:15 PM

"Man this is awesome!"

"Try this shit, it makes you trip even better!"

Forgive me for not buying that it's purely statistical quirks.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43648: Dec 12th 2012 at 1:57:54 PM

Yea it seems common sense to me. it opens the door to other stuff.

I'm baaaaaaack
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43649: Dec 12th 2012 at 2:03:14 PM

The argument against it (the idea that it's a gateway drug) is from those who've never done anything harder. So it's not the case one hundred percent of the time, but since it's illegal it makes sense that those doing it are exposed to other illegal things. Legalizing it removes the substance from that sort of environment and goes to "dude you can't smoke that in here anymore than you can smoke cigs. Take it outside so you don't trip the fire alarm."

Which was the reason we couldn't smoke in the dorms I was in. They didn't want the funky tobacco smell to soak into anything. Or trip the fire alarm which seemed to go off at anything.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43650: Dec 12th 2012 at 2:04:35 PM

Ahhh anecdotal evidence. The bane of true science.

Interestingly, let's assume Mary Jane is a gateway drug. But, note that access to MJ is therefore displacing other gateway drugs. Someone who is going to go into the harder stuff after trying the gateway drug is inevitably going to try some gateway drug one way or the other.

The only exception would be if we had, like, mandatory marijuana usage or something like that. I do definitely discourage the "friends pressuring that guy to try it 'cause, c'mon, what are you, a chicken?"

edited 12th Dec '12 2:06:25 PM by TheyCallMeTomu


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