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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#43601: Dec 11th 2012 at 10:32:02 PM

Bill to Extend Deposit Insurance Program Moves Forward in the Senate

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#43602: Dec 11th 2012 at 10:42:34 PM

Don't we have a drugs thread? And shouldn't it be made?

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#43603: Dec 11th 2012 at 10:43:35 PM

It was locked because it devolved into talking about getting high - it was also in IJAM. I could ask a mod if I could make one in OTC with the express prohibition on talking about things like that.

edited 11th Dec '12 10:44:11 PM by Completion

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#43604: Dec 12th 2012 at 3:46:16 AM

I'm also itchy about legalising the sale of stuff like krokodil (don't Google it unless you have a very strong stomach). There are some things that are just too dangerous for any use to be justified. I think I'd compare it to food safety laws - we do have regulations against corporations killing their customers, and for good reason.

What's precedent ever done for us?
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#43605: Dec 12th 2012 at 4:44:41 AM

I did say I was in favour of banning things on a food safety level, but even then, I'm not in favour of criminalizing the use of them. Addicts should be treated medically. Not penally.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#43606: Dec 12th 2012 at 4:50:56 AM

[up][up]

Good fucking God. Guys, he's right. Don't google it unless you have a strong constitution. To save you the pain, see this photo of Warhammer zombies. Imagine that. On a real person. Visible bones and all.

That shit should be illegal - but then again, Krokodil is a home made drug. If actual drugs were legal, then this would be less of a problem. Its essentially equivalent to brewing moonshine from anti-freeze whilst alcohol is legal - pointless and stupid.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#43607: Dec 12th 2012 at 5:01:37 AM

Yeah, it's just that as was demonstrated by books like The Jungle, a total lack of safety regulations can result in a rapid race to the bottom in standards that will make krokodil-equivalents a very real threat.

What's precedent ever done for us?
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#43608: Dec 12th 2012 at 5:11:45 AM

I never said complete lack of safety standards. Just lack of penalizing users. I'm in favour of currently illegal drugs being legalized but regulated on the manufacturing end. I just want them completely decriminalized on the consumer end.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#43609: Dec 12th 2012 at 5:39:09 AM

The story you didn't take away from the krokodil is the fact that, given a sure, safe supply of heroine and/or other opiates... they wouldn't be cooking that shit up in the first place. tongue And, the opiates are, at least, easier to come off, should you so wish.

Legalisation of the quality-controllable drugs would go some towards that, as even if the black market continues to try to undercut the legal stuff (yes, theirs would still be dodgy stuff, but... vs that crap...?). The incentive to try such dangerous, self-prepared drugs like krokodil would go down if others are available without the risk of being clapped in jail for it. tongue

edited 12th Dec '12 11:08:21 AM by Euodiachloris

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#43610: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:29:02 AM

Who the fuck in their right mind would legalize Krokodil?

Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#43611: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:33:54 AM

I agree. Making speed (but not crystal), cocaine (but not crack), heroin (but not krokodil), ecstasy (but not bath salts), and marijuana (but not spice), would be beneficial if you're focusing on keeping addicts and heavy users away from the more dangerous knockoffs and analogs.

edited 12th Dec '12 8:39:04 AM by Completion

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43612: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:36:50 AM

If you legalize the least destructive of the drugs, then people will seek those out instead of the nasty killer crap. It's kind of a win/win.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#43613: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:38:20 AM

Unfortunately, nobody in Congress will do so.

They make money off the war on drugs, after all.

Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#43614: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:42:42 AM

A lot of DEA agents have even said that they'd prefer it if they weren't having to go after marijuana. They're more concerned with the amphetamine, cocaine, and heroin trade, which, despite my political beliefs, is at least a respectable decision as there's no way around the fact that those are very harmful.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#43615: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:44:00 AM

Don't forget Krokodil.

Holy fucking shit, Krokodil.

LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#43616: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:50:20 AM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43617: Dec 12th 2012 at 8:51:47 AM

@Lost Anarchist, please cut out the hyperbolic statements, which could be taken as threats.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43618: Dec 12th 2012 at 9:27:19 AM

re Krokodil: This link is very informative and perfectly safe for anyone's sensitivities.

"...Since the home-made mix is routinely injected immediately with little or no further purification, "krokodil" has become notorious for producing severe tissue damage, phlebitis and gangrene, sometimes requiring limb amputation in long-term users."

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#43619: Dec 12th 2012 at 9:49:05 AM

"The amount of tissue damage is so high that addicts' life expectancies are said to be as low as two to three years"

Okay wow, krokodile is bad. I advocate drug legality, but not that kind.

I'm not mentionning the body horror involved in the infection either.

God, and people still cook that?!

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#43620: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:10:52 AM

-Googles krokodil-

Damn, that's one nasty drug.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43621: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:20:09 AM

Having encountered the subject of krokodil before in whatever drug threads we used to have, I know better than to click on any of those links. That shit is horrifying.

But yeah, seriously, legalize some minor stuff and I think we can eliminate the use of a lot of the harder stuff. Most people, quite reasonably, don't want the bother of getting arrested and will stick to legal things rather than actively seeking out the illegal.

And considering that a lot of the people in jail over drug charges tend to be people of color, this will go a long way for justice in that regard.

QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#43622: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:29:02 AM

I think there's a lot of pre-conceived ideas about drugs. I think if it was legal, people could try it and see for themselves what's the rufus about.

And you know, most of them will just go "Eh, that's it?" and never touch marijuana again (I'm talking mostly about mari here).

Without mentionning that mari doesn't impair you or make you violent. I've made experiments to make sure of that.

I can't talk for different drugs tho. I've yet to want to try those.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#43623: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:31:36 AM

Not to mention the revenue would help the government and economy a little bit. Plus reducing funds to criminal elements in Mexico, which would in turn reduce numerous other problems ever so slightly.

It's just the most obvious of many necessary steps that need to be taken if we really want to see harmful drug use and all its side effects go away, and it saddens me that the opposition has solidified around a core philosophical opposition of 'lazy pot users deserve to go to jail because recreational drugs are lol.' Never mind that middle and upper class recreational drug users seem to get away with it just fine.

Saddens me even more that the Democrats as a party don't seem to have done much of anything to fight back against that mindset and have even supported it to some extent in an attempt to remain 'mainstream.' If anything helps to get the Greens elected, I think it will be the massive amount of suffering caused by the war on drugs. It's a lot more concrete than climate change.

edited 12th Dec '12 10:32:23 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43624: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:34:54 AM

I think you mean "ruckus", Question, because Rufus is a name.

Anyway, as regards the War on Drugs; it seems to be that people are realizing the war has been lost. At the very least marijuana is losing its reputation as a criminal thing, what with Colorado and that other state voting to try and legalize it. It doesn't seem to be a move by the Greens at all in that state, but a general cultural change as young people reach voting age and start affecting policy.

It's more profitable for Democrats to pursue legalization now and less profitable for Republicans to oppose it.

edited 12th Dec '12 10:35:34 AM by AceofSpades

QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#43625: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:38:45 AM

Drats, I liked the sound of rufus. Oh well.

OOC, are there still people who believe that mari is a "gateway" drug before getting on thougher drugs?


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