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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#43201: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:21:17 PM

First link: link goes to another article, and I don't see what's new anyway. Wouldn't Sanders have thought that already?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#43202: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:22:27 PM

On the NSA thing - are they really at the UK's stage? You know, which has got the reputation for an overuse of surveillance?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#43203: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:22:41 PM

[up][up]

Fixed the link.

edited 8th Dec '12 4:46:40 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#43204: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:23:07 PM

Re: robots

I heard that Richard Gatling believed his machine gun invention would allow one soldier to do the work of many, thus reducing the size of armies and sparing a larger portion of the population from the horrors of war. For the most part, it did not play out this way.

There isn't a limit to the allowable productivity of the industrial sector anymore than there was a limit to the allowable power of armies. New inventions can be disruptive as they shift around the demand, but in the long run it tends to balance out. Even though our population has increased many times over since the start of the industrial revolution and our technology has increased immeasurably, we aren't significantly worse off in terms of employment.

edited 8th Dec '12 4:23:43 PM by Topazan

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43205: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:38:43 PM

We're all being watched?

I'm not surprised.

I would be surprised if my family's not high on the list than most though, [lol]

I'm baaaaaaack
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43206: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:43:50 PM

Re: NSA surveillance - I am Jack's total lack of surprise. I am also not overly concerned. I'm one of those people who welcomes the idea of a global information society.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#43207: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:46:10 PM

Glenn Beck, Vince Vaughn to launch reality TV show

edited 8th Dec '12 4:47:12 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43208: Dec 8th 2012 at 4:48:49 PM

[up] yay, more shitty reality TV.

I'm baaaaaaack
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43209: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:04:04 PM

Excuse me? What? What? When the hell did I say "the amount of stuff robots produce will remain constant." That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

A reduction in price is equivalent to an increase in utility for the same price.

Here's the thing: If production costs decrease, prices also decrease, but you can't just assume that this is a 1 to 1 ratio. If the reason cost decreases is because capital is better than labor, then that increases the bargaining power of capital holders, and weakens the bargaining power of laborers.

If you consider a thought experiment where one person owns a godly robot that can make anything, then prices fall to 0 if and only if he demands they fall to zero. It's about who controls the means of production.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#43210: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:43:50 PM

Boehner: 'There’s no progress to report' because White House 'wasted another week'

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#43211: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:48:12 PM

[up]Ok seriously, what do they prefer, tax-mandated revenues or borrowed funds? They're going to have to choose.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#43212: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:51:25 PM

Okay, that's clearly the plan. Wait them out and then undo the damage to social programs in future bills.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#43213: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:51:53 PM

[up][up] They just want no new taxes and to axe welfare and social security driving the country into a deeper depression by killing what's left of the country's demand.

edited 8th Dec '12 5:52:08 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#43214: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:51:56 PM

@43209 - Ok, maybe I misunderstood you, sorry. I think you are alluding to a problem that exists, but I don't think that increasing technology will make it that much worse.

I'm a Georgist, personally. Regarding your scenario, I would say that if the owner of the super robot refuses to part with the produce of the robot under reasonable terms, the rest of us will just ignore him and continue producing things the old fashioned way, maybe make some of those robots ourselves. None of us would be forced to associate with him. He'd better hope that the robot is self-maintaining, because no one will help him unless he offers something of value in return.

The main reason our poor cannot go their own way is that we allow rich people to dominate land and natural resources. Land, not capital, keeps labor dependent on the rich. Labor can produce capital, but there's only so much of the land it needs to live.

So, I don't agree that increasing technology will put labor in a weaker bargaining position, partly because its current position can't get any weaker. The only thing capital can do is offer better incentives, it's land that holds our livelihood by the throat.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#43215: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:53:36 PM

[up][up]I think it's because Congress insists that we deal with the debt first. The mindset is that we have to balance things even if economy takes a hit.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#43216: Dec 8th 2012 at 5:59:52 PM

Senator McConnell: Obama Unwilling To Compromise

"I'd love to tell you that privately it's a lot better; you know that's just public posturing," Mc Connell said at the Kentucky Farm Bureau's convention. "Privately, it isn't any better. It leads me to believe that the president would like to drive us right off the cliff. How I think that benefits him is beyond me. ... Does anybody really believe that's good for the economy? I think what his problem is, he's having a hard time turning off the campaign."

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#43217: Dec 8th 2012 at 6:13:03 PM

Welp, Mc Connell, all I have to say it doesn't feel so good when it's not you doing all the political blocking, does it?

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#43218: Dec 8th 2012 at 6:14:39 PM

The Republican definition of "unwilling to compromise" appears to be "won't give us everything we want for nothing in return".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43219: Dec 8th 2012 at 6:24:21 PM

[up] It IS.

I'm baaaaaaack
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#43220: Dec 8th 2012 at 6:57:20 PM

Pelosi jabs DeMint on his way out

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday linked outgoing Sen. Jim De Mint (R-S.C.) to one of the “saddest” Senate votes in years and suggested De Mint’s values won't be missed on Capitol Hill.

Pelosi criticized the resigning South Carolina lawmaker and other GOP senators for voting Tuesday against Senate ratification of a United Nations treaty on rights for the disabled.

“For them [De Mint and other treaty opponents] to slap the face of our veterans, of people with disabilities, of families with children with disabilities, that was one of the saddest days,” Pelosi said in the Capitol, taking care to avoid De Mint's name. “So anyone who was a party to that, well, I wish them well wherever they are going, and hope that we can have more of our values represented [by his replacement].”

Joe Walsh still fiery at final town hall meeting

"Our country is going through a revolution," said Walsh, his voice rising to a shout. "Our freedom is at risk of being lost. If that happens, we'll have government take over everything and take what you have."

edited 8th Dec '12 7:00:39 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43221: Dec 8th 2012 at 7:09:26 PM

I really dont care about those calling for revolution anymore. People are not that stupid, and the National guard can take care of those who are.

I'm baaaaaaack
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#43222: Dec 8th 2012 at 7:12:37 PM

Part of me wants it to happen since it would be the final nail in the coffin for these assholes but it would also put many people in danger.

edited 8th Dec '12 7:13:02 PM by Kostya

LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#43223: Dec 8th 2012 at 7:14:49 PM

That Joe Walsh article, he says we were stronger 80 years ago, right?

Weren't we in the Great Depression in 1932?

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#43224: Dec 8th 2012 at 7:16:30 PM

[up]Politicians cannot count. Why should this surprise you?

As for what he actually said, bull-fucking-shit.

edit: A friend showed me this. It really puts things in perspective even if it's a little outdated.

edited 8th Dec '12 7:19:24 PM by Kostya

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#43225: Dec 8th 2012 at 7:20:33 PM

What If he meant we were stronger during the depression then now.

Still Stupid and Straw Man beyond belief, but he could have implied it on purpose.

I'm baaaaaaack

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