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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42976: Dec 6th 2012 at 6:52:31 PM

PoliticsUSA.com would be a bit easier to take seriously if they didn't misspell "Sponsor" on their front page, above the ad section.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#42977: Dec 6th 2012 at 6:52:41 PM

Not sure whether I'm happy about that or not. The idea of a speaker more conservative than Boehner is frightening, but if the party goes too far right it'll kill itself and do the nation a favor.

edited 6th Dec '12 6:52:56 PM by RTaco

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42978: Dec 6th 2012 at 6:55:09 PM

[up][up]

true. But the majority of what theyre reporting on is data from Redstate.

Not to mention even googling "Fire Boehner" gets you a huge amount of hits from websites demanding Boehner's head on a pike.

edited 6th Dec '12 7:02:29 PM by Midgetsnowman

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42979: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:09:29 PM

Wow, that's weird. Who do they think they can get to replace Boehner if he's not conservative enough?

Also, I did predict this blowing up in his face.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42980: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:10:46 PM

[up]

who knows.

The Tea party isnt exactly noted for sanity.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#42981: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:15:53 PM

I'm not sure that this will pan out... if it does well there's the GOP civil war everyone has been speculating about.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#42982: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:21:18 PM

Yeah, not super sure of the topicality of this, but I have a concept of public healthcare that has confounded me for quite some time: why doesn't America have a single, unified, public healthcare system similar to the ones we have for military, police, coast guard, postal service, fire dept., etc.? Is there any country that has a system that puts the entire burden of healthcare on a state government? Is this a terrible idea for obvious reasons that I am missing? Would it be a better idea to make a sepperate OTC or other thread for this?

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42983: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:24:57 PM

You're thinking of Universal Healthcare, which most other first world countries do have. It means that you have to pay higher taxes, in order to care for everyone appropriately. It's also something that people have been lobbying for, but conservatives shout out "SOCIALISM" and "COMMUNISM" at the top of their lungs, which shuts down any serious political discourse.

Hell, Obama had enough trouble getting the ACA to pass. It even went through the Supreme Court to determine its constitutionality. Republicans are still mad that it passed the SC. Now any state that's trying to get out of it is instead going to have the Feds setting it up in their state. Some have speculated that this might actually move us to UHC faster, though I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#42984: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:26:32 PM

ONAB, we don't even have a central thing for fire and police. There are constant reports of people losing their homes because the fire department is underfunded, funded by an extra tax on the local govt which not everyone pays, and if you don't pay, they won't put the fire out.

It is abysmally stupid.

Additionally, ever since Reagan there has been a meme in american politics that you can't trust the federal government. You can trust the state government, but not the federal government. This completely discounts the fact that State govts tend to be more corrupt, and local ones really corrupt, but still.

Also, the Affordable Care Act puts the onus of providing care on the insurance companies. The states are only supposed to create "Exchanges" which would allow people to find the insurance plan which would be best for them. There's other stuff too, but it's not a direct universal care system in place by the states, with the exceptions of the ones who want to set one up, such as Vermont.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42985: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:29:42 PM

So who can replace Boehner? I hope it's somebody crazy. People can just brush off some of the statements the GOP makes as coming from a few bad eggs but if the person they choose as their leader is repeatedly attacking people then the independents will take notice.

OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#42986: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:31:11 PM

But every angle I've seen has presented universal healthcare as government funding of external doctors and hospitals. I'm wondering why we didn't consider healthcare one of government's duties from the outset? Why we don't take steps to bring doctors and nurses totally under the employ of state and federal government as we do military and police personnel, from training to deployment? What argument is there to separate healthcare from defense?

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42987: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:34:17 PM

Jon Stewart asked that same question to Bill Orly

He said (after much stumbling) "Its because America has a tradition for warfare"

he got booed. cool

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#42988: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:35:48 PM

[up][up] Money, Dear Boy. Insurance companies can't get rich off people if their health care doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

edited 6th Dec '12 7:36:01 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42989: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:37:26 PM

Uh. Healthcare and defense aren't the same thing.

Anyway, it's in part because of the idea that we take our own risks without involving others. As in the taxes that would pay for this would pay for services that not everyone would use. Nevermind that it's far more efficient to do so; it goes back to the conservative idea that we are ultimately responsible for our own lives.

This completely ignores random illnesses and maladies we're born with, or that children cannot consent to risks that cause them injuries, or any of the various other things that we simply cannot control. And also the fact that before the ACA was in place that insurance companies could drop you because of "lifetime limits" or "yearly limits" which would severely restrict the options a parent could choose for their child's health.

As for why we take care of military personnel that way; it's part of the benefits package for joining a potentially very deadly career. And Medicare is something that the elderly have spent their lifetimes paying into; it's something they've earned. Although Republicans are denying that fact now too.

Anyway. We are making BABY steps toward that sort of a system. Vermont is going straight up socialist, apparently, and the ACA is a step in the right direction, because we'll all be required to buy insurance or pay a penalty tax, thus spreading the cost of the burden around.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#42990: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:38:39 PM

Well, for the most part, it's a problem which hasn't been addressed in america. I don't really know, frankly.

I do know that the pushback against it isn't always based on the knowledge that it's basically just funding for procedures rather than replacing all of the workers involved, but when it is, it's based on sometimes unfounded concerns. One poster on this site does not want UHC because it would "kill his brother" because doctors would want to operate on him more.

I don't really get it. :/

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
#42991: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:42:54 PM

Insurance companies can't get rich off people if their health care doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Actually, from what I've read, insurance companies have pretty small profit margins. Most of the money goes to hospitals, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies.

<><
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#42992: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:44:36 PM

Ace, I'm not saying they are the same thing, I'm saying that they're the same kind of thing. And, in a way, healthcare is actually defense, just against a domestic and unavoidable enemy.

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42993: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:48:40 PM

That's a very tenuous connection, and not the best analogy to use.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42994: Dec 6th 2012 at 7:52:19 PM

I can kind of get their point. The government uses taxes to protect us from fires (fire department), keep us from being killed (police), protect us from poisons and chemicals (FDA), provide us with easy access to knowledge (libraries and schools), save our environment (EPA), and ensure our national security (army). I fail to see why healthcare is unconstitutional when the government already uses taxes to provide for all these basic needs to improve society.

edited 6th Dec '12 7:53:30 PM by Kostya

#42995: Dec 6th 2012 at 8:00:01 PM

Government-provided healthcare isn't unconstitutional. It may be inadvisable, and some means of enacting it quite probably infringe on individual rights, but it isn't unconstitutional.

<><
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42997: Dec 6th 2012 at 8:22:13 PM

So apparently the new Conservative plan is to vote out Boehner from the speakership for not being conservative enough via withholding just enough republican votes to confirm him as speaker.

I think Boehner anticipated this. That's why he's been purging House Committees of members closely aligned or in league with the Tea Party.

He's trying to reduce there influence, before they can reduce his.

edited 6th Dec '12 8:22:30 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
#42998: Dec 6th 2012 at 8:29:24 PM

[up][up] I was going off of numbers coming from analysis of the new Obamacare profit cap. As I understand it their profits as of right now are less than the Obamacare ceiling.

<><
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42999: Dec 6th 2012 at 9:01:56 PM

Kostya, why would you think UHC is unconstitutional? Hell, the reason we don't have it yet is for a lot of reasons, but anyone claiming it's unconstitutional is flat out wrong, because there isn't anything about healthcare in the Constitution.

Hell, I think most of the reason we don't have it is for years it drew up comparisons to communism, and now it's an old conservative talking point.

After declaring something like the ACA constitutional, they'd have a lot less reason to declare UHC as such.

edited 6th Dec '12 9:02:49 PM by AceofSpades

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#43000: Dec 6th 2012 at 9:31:02 PM

The Republicans are not going to replace Boehner with someone else in more opposition to the president. Not if a sizable portion of the party would disagree.

The Speaker of the House represents the whole House, not the majority party. With 200+ Democratic votes, if Boehner shows more willingness to cooperate, the minority party will form a coalition to block any new nomination they find unreasonable.


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