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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42801: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:11:39 PM

[up][up]

You do realize. they block every bill as is. So really, its like choosing between two flavors of cyanide.

edited 5th Dec '12 4:11:57 PM by Midgetsnowman

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42802: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:12:09 PM

Well it sounds like House wants to block every Senate bill.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42803: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:20:59 PM

So if I get this straight, the options are as follows:

1) Raise the debt ceiling.

2) Keep the debt ceiling, and not reach an agreement, letting certain spending cuts and tax raises trigger automatically across, to maintain the debt ceiling.

3) Keep the debt ceiling and agree to a plan that balances things relative to the budget. This includes:

Proposal by Democrats that includes tax raise/end of previous tax cuts for the upper class, and use that tax rate for revenue gain. I also remember that they want to keep the tax cuts for middle class; don't remember what they want with the spending.

Republican proposal that opposes tax raise for upper class but is willing to close tax loopholes. Probably includes some spending reduction, but the Republican offers have been shifting around, ranging from extending middle class tax cuts to reducing military budget.

This Grand Bargain, which is similar to automatic budget balancing but modified by the current bargainers to target selected things.

So which of these is the best solution to our current problem?

President Barack Obama is expected to ask Congress for about $50 billion in extra emergency aid for states hit by Hurricane Sandy

edited 5th Dec '12 4:24:30 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42804: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:29:26 PM

Senate Democrats block Republicans from bringing up STEM Visa bill

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#42805: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:42:35 PM

oi vey*

... stop blocking everything and just discuss it!

I'm baaaaaaack
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#42806: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:44:10 PM

Hm...not sure I like what the Dems did here.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42807: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:51:19 PM

New York Times released a story where three kids (8-year old, 10-year old and 12-year old) were picking up dung to burn as fuel, a common practice in the desert reaches of southern Afghanistan, where there are few trees.

A NATO strike killed all three on Sunday afternoon. The guy who (I presume) ordered it was Lieutenant Colonel Marion Carrington. His response? "It opens our aperture. In addition to looking for military-age males, it's looking for children with potential hostile intent."

Children, looking for fuel to keep their families warm, have "potential hostile intent?" You paranoid fuck.

edited 5th Dec '12 5:02:11 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#42808: Dec 5th 2012 at 5:22:05 PM

Not mentioned by Serocco: the kids were mistaken for Taliban fighters thought to be placing IEDs. The quote was in reference to the Taliban recruiting children for such things, which is known to have happened. Story on the incident. He was saying "we have to be wary of children being hired to do things for the Taliban", not "Yeehaw, let's blow up some kids, they fly farther when the bombs go off!"

Seriously, at least try to refrain from assuming that everyone you don't like is a murderous, child-slaughtering General Ripper.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42809: Dec 5th 2012 at 5:44:28 PM

Former Texan Representative Jack Brooks is dead.

He served 42 years in the House,was chairman of the House Committee on the Judiciary between 1989 and 1995, helped write the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, sponsored the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and drafted the articles of impeachment against Nixon during the impeachment proceedings following the Watergate scandal in 1974.

edited 5th Dec '12 5:44:54 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42810: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:07:38 PM

[up][up] Except those three kids were gathering stuff to warm up their family. They were not posing any threat, immediate or otherwise, to their killers.

They were picking up dung. How the hell do you confuse those for Taliban recruits?

edited 5th Dec '12 6:12:30 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42811: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:09:59 PM

The guy in charge didn't know that. They don't have people right there to ask them.

It sucks, and he should take responsibility somehow, but I can understand it.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:10:29 PM by Thorn14

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42812: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:12:35 PM

[up] The only reason for the Lieutenant Colonel to not have known the difference, would be if he automatically assumed all Afghans were suspected Taliban recruits/sympathizers.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42813: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:14:17 PM

The taliban have a history of dressing as civilians AND using child soldiers.

So yes, he probably does assume that, for the safety of his men.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:14:32 PM by Thorn14

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42814: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:16:05 PM

Even so, those three kids, specifically, did not pose a threat to his men.

Is dung flammable? Does it blow up on impact like a grenade? Can it poison someone if thrown at their flesh?

edited 5th Dec '12 6:18:48 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42815: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:20:54 PM

They didn't know at the time.

Its easy to say they posed no threat NOW.

War is not a video game where you can know all the data.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:24:13 PM by Thorn14

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#42816: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:21:42 PM

it's a sad thing, but it happens. war sucks. and yes, people bending over a lot near a road CAN look like people setting up an IED.

I'm baaaaaaack
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42817: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:24:10 PM

What was their method of killing those kids?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42818: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:24:37 PM

If it says NATO strike, it could have been a drone or from a high altitude plane.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#42819: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:26:57 PM

Serocco, you're speaking with the benefit of hindsight. When they authorized the attack, all they knew was that three people were digging in the dirt, presumably on/near a road used by allied forces. You're acting like they knew that the kids weren't a threat and decided to fire anyway, and that's not the case. They made a mistaken, believing the kids to be a danger to troops on the ground. They were wrong, which is tragic, but can you please try to look at it from the other point of view instead of immediately ascribing the worst possible motivations to the military?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42820: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:27:08 PM

Three kids have died. If I was their father, I would not have let it go.

That's why I can't excuse Carrington's motives over it.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:28:05 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42821: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:28:23 PM

In regards to Dems blocking the STEM bill: It's already been brought up in this thread, but the STEM bill would actually reduce the number of visas given out. This is why they blocked it.

[up]And I doubt those kid's father will. But you like to act like the military enjoys killing children, or that they don't have reason to be paranoid.

In any case, I'd like to see this Times article or some other source detailing the event. You are such a biased source I have to take everything you say with a grain of salt.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:29:56 PM by AceofSpades

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42822: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:30:54 PM

Blackwater sure as hell enjoys shooting people, but they're mercenaries, not true military.

[up] So, what, you take my analysis on Social Security with a grain of salt?

edited 5th Dec '12 6:32:56 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42823: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:32:21 PM

What the fuck does Blackwater have to do with this NATO strike? Fuck, please stick to the topic and don't bring in extraneous things like that proves your point.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42824: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:32:30 PM

Senator Kerry: Rejection of UN treaty on disabled rights a 'slap in the face'

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42825: Dec 5th 2012 at 6:33:54 PM

[up][up] NATO and Blackwater have attacked civilians before. I was pointing out how no arm of any military is exempt from anything resembling war crimes.

Also, RIP Jack Brooks, one of the few Republicans (politicians, even) with a heart.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:34:24 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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