TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42776: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:17:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]

From what I've been hearing the Grand Bargain would as well.

Something about it being an austerity bomb.

[up]

Raise taxes

edited 5th Dec '12 3:22:43 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#42777: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:18:27 PM

@Serocco: Glad to hear it. Surprised, because I've heard the opposite from other sources. But still, it's good to hear.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42778: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:20:50 PM

The way to fix Social Security is to remove the limitation on how much the payroll taxes that finance. If you remove that funding limit, Social Security will pay %100 of its benefits for the next 75 years.

Even with that limitation, Social Security remains fully funded over the next two decades and will pay 75% of its benefits. You don't have to cut it. All you need is to pass a bill that legally removes that limitation.

Thankfully, Obama seems to have taken SS off the table this time around.

edited 5th Dec '12 3:26:49 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42779: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:40:56 PM

@Deviant

Actually, it sounds like a stagflation bomb than an austerity bomb.

So if I get this straight, the options are as follows:

1) Raise the debt ceiling.

2) Keep the debt ceiling, and not reach an agreement, letting certain spending cuts and tax raises trigger automatically across, to maintain the debt ceiling.

3) Keep the debt ceiling and agree to a plan that balances things relative to the budget. This includes:

  • Proposal by Democrats that includes tax raise/end of previous tax cuts for the upper class, and use that tax rate for revenue gain. I also remember that they want to keep the tax cuts for middle class; don't remember what they want with the spending.
  • Republican proposal that opposes tax raise for upper class but is willing to close tax loopholes. Probably includes some spending reduction, but the Republican offers have been shifting around, ranging from extending middle class tax cuts to reducing military budget.
  • This Grand Bargain, which is similar to automatic budget balancing but modified by the current bargainers to target selected things.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#42780: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:43:48 PM

How about sharply raising taxes and cutting Government hard at the same time or is that too much at once?

Keep Rolling On
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42781: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:45:12 PM

Probably too much.

I'm really getting confused at trying to juggle all these cases...

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42782: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:45:46 PM

Republicans swore upon the word of Norquist (praise be unto him) never to increase taxes

ever.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42783: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:46:04 PM

How about sharply raising taxes and cutting Government hard at the same time or is that too much at once?

Blasphemy!

It was an honor
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#42784: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:46:15 PM

[up] Sacrilege! We must do one or the other!!!grintongue

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42785: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:47:52 PM

The austerity bomb = the fiscal cliff.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42786: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:50:12 PM

How is it austerity when it also involves tax raises, though?

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#42787: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:50:15 PM

...that's what has happened in Britain. Right now, the Government is chasing down Tax Avoiders, including Multinational Corporations (like Google, Amazon and Starbucks) and probably Sports Teams, soon.

[up]

The money goes on paying back the Debt, not on Government.

edited 5th Dec '12 3:50:45 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42788: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:50:27 PM

The austerity bomb = the fiscal cliff.

More blasphemy! Dammit, we need an Inquisition once and for all.

that's what has happened in Britain. Right now, the Government is chasing down Tax Avoiders, including Multinational Corporations (like Google, Amazon and Starbucks) and probably Sports Teams, soon.

Dude, if the US went got rid of all the goddamn tax shelters and actually made Big Business pay their share, we'd make the Nordic model look like a bad Monopoly game.

Christ, it's so nauseating what we've let greed do.

edited 5th Dec '12 3:53:13 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#42789: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:51:48 PM

Britain's also destroyed their economy and stopped GDP growth. Austerity or not, it sure as hell didn't work.

Let's not be Britain.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#42790: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:52:52 PM

I wouldn't argue with that. We're now on an export drive and spending a little money on Infrastructure!

edited 5th Dec '12 3:53:03 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42791: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:54:48 PM

The "Austerity Bomb" was a term used to describe the Fiscal Cliff that was more accurate. The "Fiscal Cliff" involves lots of cuts, or austerity that triggers. However, people think "Oh no, if we hit the fiscal cliff we'll have an insurmountable amount of debt" because of bad messaging.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42792: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:55:54 PM

So there's a confusion between the automatic measures and debt increase, I suppose?

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42793: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:56:00 PM

Cliff is also fitting because we can see the damned edge in front of us and we wont do a thing about it.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#42794: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:56:01 PM

Austerity doesn't work in the least. Cutting government spending to social programs stops the economy, welfare especially. Welfare is basically the government funnelling money right back into the economy. Welfare money gets used, it doesn't sit around waiting in someone's coffers. It goes to work. It fuels businesses. It pays salaries. It makes more money for the government in the form of taxes on the economic growth that it fuels.

What we need is to invest in our own economy from the bottom up where it actually gets spent.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#42795: Dec 5th 2012 at 3:57:55 PM

@Green: That's essentially what letting the fiscal cliff take its course would do.

And it's been mentioned before several times already, but just because we go off the cliff doesn't mean that the economy will implode immediately come January first. There's still a significant window of time in which actions can be taken to prevent the damage. And as others have said ad naseum at this point, it would be rather difficult for Republicans to vote against restoring the pre-cliff tax cuts for the middle class without getting screwed in 2014. I'd rather have Congress just be reasonable for once so this doesn't have to happen, but that's a pipe dream at this point.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42796: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:00:03 PM

[up][up]I thought the agreement was all about balancing tax increases and spending cuts. It's not so much to recover the economy but rather to avoid more deficit in the government so that debt won't increase. It sounds like the only option would be to increase the debt.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42797: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:01:22 PM

[up][up][up] Well it's naive to imply that there isn't any wasteful spending happening in entitlement programs.

Austerity is good when it cuts the fat off the bone. Austerity is bad when it cuts through the bone.

edited 5th Dec '12 4:03:04 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#42798: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:05:55 PM

I'm actually saying spend more on welfare in order to get back more taxes which drives down the deficit and thus national debt. The fat here really doesn't matter. We get back in taxes everything we spend on welfare and then some. It creates jobs and it provides sales taxes. Don't worry about catching fraud. That's a waste of money. The important thing here is just to inject money back into the economy in order to get it back out.

edited 5th Dec '12 4:08:07 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42799: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:08:40 PM

Baehner said that, if the Democrats reform the filibuster, Republicans will block every bill.

He said "Any bill that requires a Republican-led House based on the Democrats' 'heavy-handed' power play would be dead on arrival".

edited 5th Dec '12 4:09:37 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42800: Dec 5th 2012 at 4:10:15 PM

But see, while spending more may help economy in long term, you're still having more deficit spending added. Which means you need even more tax increases or a debt increase. That's analogous to Republicans wanting to drive economy by lowering taxes; it won't happen if the other side doesn't buy it.

It doesn't look like it's an option right now.


Total posts: 417,856
Top