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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42651: Dec 5th 2012 at 11:15:49 AM

Not surprising, considering how wrong he was. Also, I'm pretty sure none of us knew who those guys were because we're not Fox viewers.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/05/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

Seems ever increasingly like we're going over the cliff now.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42652: Dec 5th 2012 at 11:21:39 AM

You don't have to tune into Fox to know who Karl Rove is. He was the Deputy Chief of Staff to George W Bush and the architect behind the campaigns for both Bush and Romney.

Bob Woodward (so you know it's legit) found audio records about Roger Ailes and David Petraeus. Ailes sent a Fox News correspondent to relay Ailes' message to Petraeus, which was to "Run for president (against Obama)." The audio recordings occurred during the Republican primaries, when Romney was butting heads with Perry.

Ailes suggested that Petraeus should take the job as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not a position in the CIA. If Obama didn't nominate Petraeus as Chairman (the highest position in the military), Ailes wanted Petraeus to resign as general and run for president. The emissary even said that Ailes would quit as head of Fox News to run Petraeus' campaign. Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox News, would have also funded Petraeus' campaign.

Petraeus explained that the Chairman position, due to the "retrenching" of the military. Instead, he wanted to move from the military into intelligence, specifically the CIA, which has been gaining more authority via militarization. Petraeus further explains that he didn't wanna run because his wife would've divorced him.

You can hear the audio clips in this video, particularly 00:34 through 00:47, 1:04 through 1:18, 2:03 through 2:23, 3:35 through 3:43, 4:15 through 4:27, 4:53 through 5:17, 5:45 through 5:55, 6:13 through 6:27, 6:54 through 7:17, and 7:59 through 8:11.

edited 5th Dec '12 11:47:38 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42653: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:08:46 PM

The reason why the US military budget is so much greater than the rest of the world combined is because the rest of the world is relying on the US Military to help preserve global stability. The size of the US allows other regions to focus their resources on more productive activities. It's a pretty good deal for all concerned, actually.

And a reason why I chafe at the America bashing that seems so in style now. Nordic model this, Canada and Europe surpass in everything that...

This country keeps a sizeable majority of its 314 million people employed in the middle of a Recession, its citizenry is among the most diverse in the world and manages to live more or less in peace (most of the time), and we do this while helping to maintain the peace for a world that always seems to have some complaint about how we do things.

Fact is, this country is pretty fucking awesome. We're not the only awesome country in the world, but we are one of them.

edited 5th Dec '12 12:09:22 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42654: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:21:37 PM

The fact that you want to base the reason for our awesomeness on our military rather than anything else is kind of pathetic, actually. And as far as recession goes, we've done about as well as anyone else suffering from it, which actually isn't saying that much, what with going down the same stupid austerity road as much of Europe.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#42655: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:33:03 PM

Looking at other countries to see what they're doing right and wrong in hopes of mirroring the good and discarding what doesn't work is not America bashing. If anything it's America building. It's wanting America to be better than other countries by learning from them and stealing the best stuff. That's something we've always been good at.

Discarding that bit of our history and just blindly fumbling in the dark is America bashing. Blind patriotism that makes us ignore our problems rather than fix them is America bashing. Promoting one group of our citizens over the others is America bashing. Letting the wealthiest people trample over the poor is America bashing.

Honestly, the Republican party are the biggest America bashers in the world since them seem to be doing the damnedest to bash the whole country into the rocks until it falls apart so the rich can loot the corpse.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#42656: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:38:39 PM

The things most outsiders seem to ignore is that the United States is a very large and very populous country. The United States is third largest after China and India in terms of population and fourth largest in size after Russia, Canada, and China. Some things like the Nordic model which works for small European countries might not scale up well for a population as big and a country as large as the United States. Of course, that doesn't mean we should not try to get it to work, but it does mean that it will be more difficult to implement what might be perfect for a small little country for the United States.

edited 5th Dec '12 12:43:40 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#42657: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:53:39 PM

[up] Apply the system state by state with the federal supervising?

I dunno, I always thought that states (or provinces/territories for that matter) were equivalent to european countries in term of size/population/economy.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42658: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:56:26 PM

That argument of scale has not been proven. Until then it's a strawman.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42659: Dec 5th 2012 at 12:57:25 PM

Sometimes you have to wonder if it's simply a bad thing that US is this big.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42660: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:00:28 PM

Part of the reason the Nordic Model works so well is that it employs nearly forty percent of the population as government workers. But people keep fighting against that here, for reasons of "government is getting to big" without realizing this means teachers, postal workers, cops, etc, and then forgetting these people also pay taxes and generally work to make society better. I'm not saying we could get up to that percentage, but we could do a damn sight better to hire more in all those areas. And by doing that, keeping unemployment down, and in doing that prevent or reduce the effects of recessions.

There's nothing about the size of our population that keeps us from hiring more teachers and cops. Hell, the size of it is why we need to hire more.

[up]As we're not going to reduce our size it's an entirely moot question and a waste of time to consider it.

edited 5th Dec '12 1:01:02 PM by AceofSpades

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#42661: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:02:10 PM

We should hire more...

I'm baaaaaaack
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42662: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:03:12 PM

So in what areas do size and centralizing become a problem? We need to identify those so that we can see where it applies or not.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#42663: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:06:04 PM

Kind of hard to tell when no one is willing to try anything new in the first place, really. You find out most of that stuff when putting it into practice.

But really, in this day of instant communication and easy travel I think the issues of "size" is much less than it may have been before.

edited 5th Dec '12 1:06:46 PM by AceofSpades

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42664: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:16:02 PM

I'd rather our country be known for being the top in education, or medicine, or something.

Not because we're so good at slaughtering our fellow man.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42665: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:21:49 PM

If we can even get top in immigration opportunities, that would be great.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42666: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:26:17 PM

The fact that you want to base the reason for our awesomeness on our military rather than anything else is kind of pathetic, actually. And as far as recession goes, we've done about as well as anyone else suffering from it, which actually isn't saying that much, what with going down the same stupid austerity road as much of Europe.

I see why Completely Missing The Point is a trope. First off, I didn't base the reason for our awesomeness on our military, and I have NO idea how you got that idea. I base our awesomeness on many aggregate factors, one of which is that by and large, the US gladly accepts takes primary responsibility for keeping the peace and delivering tons of aid, sometimes to the very people who can spend whole encyclopedias complaining, but a "thank you" is beyond their grasp. That takes a level of charitably that I'm not sure I'd match.

Additionally, while I never say America is perfect and beyond reproach, I don't really see what's so wrong in saying that there are unique challenges to be a country of our size and breadth and perhaps we actually do pretty well all things considered.

That argument of scale has not been proven. Until then it's a strawman.

Scale affecting outcome is a pretty well-known concept, Fighteer. Simply because it's not been proven in this instance doesn't make it straw, per se.

I'd rather our country be known for being the top in education, or medicine, or something.

Not because we're so good at slaughtering our fellow man.

Funny thing is, we are. The United States is a leader in research and "impact research" in all fields. And the access to education at all levels is surprisingly high considering the amount of people we have.

And these saintly countries everyone talks about have their skeletons in the closet.

Like I said, it's fashionable to make it appear America is a Crapsack Country, while these saintly Utopias tsk-tsk all day. That Americans seem to be the biggest perpetrators of this is what I find pathetic.

Discarding that bit of our history and just blindly fumbling in the dark is America bashing. Blind patriotism that makes us ignore our problems rather than fix them is America bashing. Promoting one group of our citizens over the others is America bashing. Letting the wealthiest people trample over the poor is America bashing.

Honestly, the Republican party are the biggest America bashers in the world since them seem to be doing the damnedest to bash the whole country into the rocks until it falls apart so the rich can loot the corpse.

Shima, you and I are often on opposite philosophical and sociological poles. Not this time.

I agree with you categorically. [awesome]

edited 5th Dec '12 1:28:20 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42667: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:30:16 PM

I'm annoyed that people ignored my posts again.

I mean, that was some clear-cut, no-bullshit findings that Fox News (Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch) were going to run and fund Petraeus' campaign if he ran as president. Nobody's interested in talking about that?

edited 5th Dec '12 1:38:13 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#42668: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:38:41 PM

@Thorn: Here I kinda have to disagree. Being the most effective killers on the planet, combined with the acumen and moral character to pick the right targets to kill, is something to be proud of. Being strong enough that other countries are afraid to start fights is something to be proud of.

Of course, it does mean that our failures of acumen and moral character will be scrutinized much more harshly than they would otherwise, as they should.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42669: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:40:45 PM

[up][up]

Nobody really cares, mostly because Petraeus didnt run, and was a philanderer anyhow and would have been torched in the primaries the second something like that came out.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42670: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:42:33 PM

[up] Petraeus had Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch encouraging him to run. Both pledged to make sure that he would've won if he had run. Those two run and own Fox News. Petraeus' chances at getting the nomination would've been a sure-fire thing if he ran.

edited 5th Dec '12 1:43:42 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#42671: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:44:00 PM

[up]And? It didn't happen.

Big whoop.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#42672: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:44:26 PM

...I guess we would've had a historic direct clash with Fox News itself?

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#42673: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:46:17 PM

[up][up] It could still happen. People forget stuff like sex scandals when it happens to be a Republican.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42674: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:46:41 PM

I don't see how this is news. It didn't happen so it's not like you're going to get other people to care. Attack them over things they actually did that are morally wrong rather than things they might have done.

[up]And if it does then it will be noteworthy and something that needs to get out there. Right now it's unimportant though.

edited 5th Dec '12 1:47:18 PM by Kostya

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#42675: Dec 5th 2012 at 1:47:12 PM

So, Michigan Republicans want to turn our state into a Right to Work state.

And I just saw an ad that says to support...snerk..."Freedom to Work" for Michigan.

Also it again keeps up the lie that collective bargaining is a federally protected right.


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