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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

#42026: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:41:13 PM

As we discussed before, Crist and this guy were part of the same faction that was ousted at the time Rick Scott came in, and have a definite motive to discredit Rick Scott's actions.

I'm not questioning the seriousness of the allegations, I am questioning their portrayal as "whistle-blowing" by "insiders" rather than what they are: attacks by political opponents.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:42:47 PM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42027: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:43:37 PM

[up] What he said.

It was an honor
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42028: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:45:08 PM

Answer me this, why would someone in good graces with the GOP blow the whistle?

I don't dispute that this is just a cheap way of getting back at their enemies but that doesn't mean their allegations aren't true. They might not be insiders now, true, but that doesn't mean they weren't when they came across this information and are only saying things now because they have nothing to lose by doing so.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:45:35 PM by Kostya

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#42029: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:45:36 PM

Crist wasn't ousted. He left voluntarily because the party was doing things he thought were unethical. He's said as much long before this.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#42030: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:48:35 PM

@Grizzly and Starship: Or these two are telling the truth, which is likely due to all the evidence they have supporting them.

[Redacted -Fighteer]

[down]I am a mean person who says mean things that are probably true, but I will refrain from saying them from now on in order to maintain civility.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:53:23 PM by Ekuran

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42032: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:50:40 PM

Crist wasn't ousted. He left voluntarily because the party was doing things he thought were unethical. He's said as much long before this.

Elaborate please.

It was an honor
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#42033: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:51:35 PM

Here's an article on it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42034: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:54:42 PM

Hm, interesting. So basically Crist is another "Rockefeller Republican"?

It was an honor
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#42035: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:56:38 PM

the hell?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/us/from-the-man-who-insulted-islam-no-retreat.html

an article in the NY Times about the man who made the Innocence of Muslims film.

Second paragraph: "Does Mr. Nakoula now regret the footage? After all, it fueled deadly protests across the Islamic world and led the unlikely filmmaker to his own arrest for violating his supervised release on a fraud conviction."

Seventh paragraph: "There is a dispute about how important the video was in provoking the terrorist assault on the American diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya, that killed the United States ambassador and three other Americans. Militants interviewed at the scene said they were unaware of the video until a protest in Cairo called it to their attention. But the video without question led to protests across the globe, beginning in Cairo and spreading rapidly in September to Yemen, Morocco, Iran, Tunisia, Sudan, Iraq, Pakistan, Lebanon, Indonesia and Malaysia."

I thought "deadly" meant you know, that someone died. I have not heard anybody dying from any protests over this video nor is any claim made in this article anyone has EXCEPT for the purported connection to the attack in Benghazi. Even the Obama administration has moved away from that claim.

There's no bias here, none at all!/sarc

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42036: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:57:50 PM

The term "fueled" means "contributed to", not "caused in its entirety". I have no doubts that the film was a triggering event for violence, but it doesn't take a great deal to accomplish that in such places.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:58:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#42037: Nov 26th 2012 at 1:04:08 PM

There were obviously pro-Gaddafi elements left in all major cities of Libya. They must have been waiting for an opportunity to carry out a strike against the US and anyone else who supported the revolution. The protests against this silly film were just a convenient platform from which to launch that strike. It would've happened anyway, as soon as they got the chance.

It's remarkable that the numbers of protestors against the film were immediately dwarfed by the numbers that poured out in support of the US after the terrorist attack on the consulate.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#42038: Nov 26th 2012 at 1:06:11 PM

[up][up] Yes, I always bring mortars to a protest. The attack was a well planned assault not some spur of the moment thing, with them being attacked while retreating and then having mortars rain down at the annex. Does anybody disagree with this assessment?

and sad to say but most people won't read more than a few paragraphs. the claim of connection is made in the second paragraph. The only thing most people would remember is the attack in which the ambassador died. The classifier that there is some dispute over the connection is made in the seventh paragraph.

[up] indeed the fact that there has been some signs that the Arab spring may not go the way of the French Revolution has given me some hope.

edited 26th Nov '12 2:53:47 PM by SecretLink

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42040: Nov 26th 2012 at 8:34:22 PM

If we go by the normal sequence of events, since Santorum came in second this time, he'd likely be the nominee next time. It's what happened to Romney.

Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#42041: Nov 26th 2012 at 8:44:30 PM

So. Biden v. Santorum, who wins?

PhilippeO Since: Oct, 2010
#42042: Nov 26th 2012 at 8:47:48 PM

@Secretlink

from wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_Innocence_of_Muslims

On September 13, protests occurred at the U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen, resulting in the deaths of four protesters and injuries to thirty-five protesters and guards. On September 14, the U.S. consulate in Chennai was attacked, resulting in injuries to twenty-five protesters.[15] Protesters in Tunis, Tunisia, climbed the U.S. embassy walls and set trees on fire. At least four people were killed and forty-six injured during protests in Tunis on September 15.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42043: Nov 26th 2012 at 8:59:09 PM

VP Joe Biden to lead US delegation at Mexico inaugural

[up][up][up]

Nelson Rockefeller got second in the Republican primary in 1964. Look at how he did in 1968.

edited 26th Nov '12 9:23:54 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42044: Nov 26th 2012 at 9:20:31 PM

Yeah, but I'm talking about the past three or four election cycles.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42045: Nov 26th 2012 at 9:24:08 PM

[up]

How about 2004 Democratic Primary 2nd place winner John Edwards. Remember his 2008 performance?

edited 26th Nov '12 9:24:53 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42046: Nov 26th 2012 at 9:29:39 PM

We're talking about the Republican party not the Democratic party.

For instance, I'm not hypothesizing that Clinton will be the presidential pick in 2016

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#42047: Nov 26th 2012 at 9:38:55 PM

[up]

Technically Hillary won the popular vote grumble

Christie Will Seek Second Term as Sandy Powers Up Ratings

Shocker.tongue

In other news, THE TAX PLEDGERS ARE REVOLTING!

Man, Norquist has gotten chubby since the 80s

edited 26th Nov '12 9:44:34 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#42048: Nov 26th 2012 at 10:39:15 PM

I'd just like to say, re: the voter suppression article, that I love the Palm Beach Post. I grew up in Palm Beach and I feel like they're the only newspaper I've read that still does actual journalism — as in, rather than just repeating "this person said this about that", they fact-check and analyze without pushing a particular view. I know I loved their election coverage in 2008; I'm living up in Orlando now and I really missed their summaries of all the candidates for local offices.

On the subject of Greer and Crist... Well, Greer's a scumbag, but Crist's only problem was that he refused to move to the right with the rest of the GOP. He ran for Senate in 2010 as an independent, because he was beaten out in the Republican primary by Marco Rubio, a Tea Party darling. (Unfortunately, Crist split the moderate vote between himself and the Democratic candidate, which handed Rubio the election on a silver platter — there was speculation that, had he won, Crist would've caucused with the Democrats.) There are really two ways to look at this — that he wanted to win no matter what and he was willing to stab his own party in the back to do so, or that he felt that his personal politics were becoming incompatible with his party affiliation, so he took the logical step of changing his party affiliation. Given his stances running up to the election (he openly supported Obama's stimulus bill, for instance), I certainly think the latter scenario is closer to reality.

In any case, Florida's partisan politics are incredibly fucked up. The Republican party has been firmly in control of the state for decades, largely through restricting early voting and similar shenanigans. Hell, gerrymandering was legal in the state until 2010 (and the districting for the 2012 election cycle was deeply suspect, given that Rick Scott — the Republican governor elected in 2010 — deliberately stalled the process until it had to be rushed through for the 2012 elections).

The fact is, the Republican party used its supermajority in both houses of the Florida legislature to pass legislation nominally intended to combat the (nonexistent) problem of in-person voter fraud and lower election costs (it didn't) when in actuality everyone's been screaming since day one that it would disproportionally affect Democratic voters. That by itself doesn't pass the smell test — the fact that formerly prominent members of the party are backing the nefarious interpretation of events is less of a raising of the question of ugly motives for the early voting changes and more of a confirming of the answer.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#42049: Nov 27th 2012 at 1:16:50 AM

[up][up]

I know, I can smell them from here!

About Santorum, it all depends on what the state of US politics is in 2016. Judging from the previous election, it seems that Obama's victories, it seems that US politics is shifting, in general, to the left (hooray!). Hopefully (or hopefully not if you are of a conservative persuasion) by the time 2016 rolls around someone like Santorum will be unelectable. If the Democrats do the smart thing and pick Hillary, he's toast.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#42050: Nov 27th 2012 at 2:49:54 AM

I'm hoping that, come 2016, Santorum is unelectable, but chosen anyway.

Also, Clinton is out of politics and has specifically said she will not run again.


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