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Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#42001: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:03:47 PM

Sorry to go back a page, but:

Comparing bank fraud to abortions is slightly silly. People do not need bank fraud. Bank fraud is stealing money from people who need it. Meanwhile, women who need abortions either need them for medical reasons or need them because they're not prepared, emotionally, monetarily, physically, or mentally.

Banning abortion wouldn't deal with the underlying need to have them. Banning bank fraud in its technicolor forms would, because there is little underlying need behind it beyond greed and desperation for money.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42002: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:03:48 PM

What, pointing out a very real fact and in doing so why we're for something?

Yes, that. Truth isn't always pleasant, you know.

[up] I've already addressed this particular Perfect Comparison Fallacy. For sake of not violating a forum request I'll table my opinion on the idea that abortion is "needed".

edited 26th Nov '12 12:04:53 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#42003: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:05:14 PM

You guys are downplaying the effects of incest amongst close family members - sure, the damage of cousins boinking is low, but the rate of deaths and major disabilities amongst kids born to siblings or parents and children is 20-36%. That's pretty enormous.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42004: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:08:59 PM

[up]

Erm, No, we're not downplaying it. We're pointing out the raw genetic variance is barely any different.

And frankly, a whole hell of a lot of infants who arent born via incest die too, so we'd need context on those numbers.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42005: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:10:43 PM

What the...what'd I miss?? Incest babies???

It was an honor
#42006: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:11:30 PM

Several Florida Republicans admit voter suppression intent in election.

This is several months old. Jim Greer was a sleazy politician who was kicked out by his own party well before these laws became an issue over a scandal involving his siphoning party funds to a business owned by a relative of his. Charlie Crist is likewise a disgraced turncoat. Neither of them are especially reliable witnesses, nor are they insiders to the present GOP leadership in FL.

<><
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42007: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:13:51 PM

[up]

In short "well, theyre bad guys, so the GOP is innocent"

[up][up]

Oh come on Maxima, with us filthy liberals around you knew we'd somehow veer the topic into our sinful ways 8D

edited 26th Nov '12 12:14:28 PM by Midgetsnowman

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42008: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:14:47 PM

[up][up]What do you mean it's several months old? The article's date is yesterday.

Do you expect current party big wigs to admit to this? I don't see why them not being in good graces with them is any reason to not believe this.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:15:39 PM by Kostya

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42009: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:14:54 PM

[up][up] In short, "I'm going to withhold judgment until someone a little less sleazy and slimy uncovers something akin to "actual evidence".

edited 26th Nov '12 12:15:20 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42010: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:15:11 PM

@Edwards Grizzly and Starship: Have you considered that they may have left the GOP because the GOP is batshit crazy and was in fact deliberately suppressing voters under the guise of preventing fraud?

Besides, major GOP figures came right out and said that voter ID and similar laws would reduce Democratic turnout.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:16:11 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42011: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:15:20 PM

[up][up]

so never.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:15:26 PM by Midgetsnowman

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#42012: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:16:16 PM

No, not never. But again, I'm a firm believer in separating 'appearance of guilt' from 'actual guilt'.

Oh come on Maxima, with us filthy liberals around you knew we'd somehow veer the topic into our sinful ways 8D

I shouldn't be laughing at this....

Have you considered that they may have left the GOP because the GOP is batshit crazy and was in fact deliberately suppressing voters under the guise of preventing fraud?

Yes, I have. And it makes it queasy that the idea isn't as laughable as it sounded once.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:17:48 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42013: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:17:20 PM

[up]

I'm a firm believer in being cynical of politicians :3

edited 26th Nov '12 12:17:42 PM by Midgetsnowman

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42014: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:17:49 PM

@Starship: " I'm a firm believer in separating 'appearance of guilt' from 'actual guilt'." — To be sure. But these "revelations" are entirely consistent with the facts that we've observed thus far. When your policies have the effect of disenfranchising voters without noticeably impacting fraud or reducing costs, and there is no evidence of the fraud that you're notionally attempting to prevent, it doesn't take a genius to read ulterior motives into the actions in question.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:18:29 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42015: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:18:40 PM

[up]

and or hilarious levels of incompetence if by some miracle they dont have ulterior motives.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#42016: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:19:23 PM

Regrettably, the source for those percentages (Inbreeding, Incest, And The Incest Taboo, by Wolfe) is hard-copy, not an Internet document, but check this out. Yes, there's a baseline rate for birth abnormalities, but I think you'll agree that that's quite a way beyond it, no?

edited 26th Nov '12 12:20:26 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42017: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:21:04 PM

[up][up] That just brings us back to the "stupid vs. evil" question. Neither one makes you look particularly good.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:21:18 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#42018: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:23:30 PM

[up][up]

Fair enough. But my point overall is, that incest has degrees. a third cousin has absolutely no genetic difference from a complete stranger. and though technically incest, is not as risky genetically as someone screwing their daughter.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42019: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:25:03 PM

I'm concerned that I may have to thump the incest derail if it continues. Please close it down.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#42020: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:29:50 PM

[up] That sounds wrong, somehow.

Edit: In other news...

Confetti used in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade might have sensitive information printed on it. They're thinking it came from a local police department.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:32:23 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42021: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:33:54 PM

[up]That is so stupid. Isn't stuff like this supposed to be archived?

edited 26th Nov '12 12:34:42 PM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42022: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:34:03 PM

That's very odd. The article also says that it may not have been the official parade confetti but something someone else threw in. The question remains how the shredded documents got into public hands. Most business that need to destroy sensitive documents use secure commercial shredding companies whose entire job is to make sure that the stuff is completely destroyed. If one of those companies screwed up or was scamming them...

edited 26th Nov '12 12:35:12 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#42023: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:35:06 PM

Yeah, I'm wondering what the investigation turns up, because that's kind of troublesome.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
#42024: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:37:04 PM

What do you mean it's several months old? The article's date is yesterday.

What I mean is that Greer's allegations were reported and discussed in this thread several months ago.

I don't see why them not being in good graces with them is any reason to not believe this.

When they are in bad graces due to confirmed dishonesty and fraud, that's usually a sign to take their statements with a grain of salt.

I'm not saying that the GOP necessarily was innocent, but this supposed "revelation" is not very useful in determining so.

edited 26th Nov '12 12:39:55 PM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#42025: Nov 26th 2012 at 12:39:03 PM

But not Crist's, right? The point is that there are multiple sources stating that the purpose of the GOP's efforts in Florida (and Pennsylvania and elsewhere) was voter suppression, not preventing fraud. That alone should be enough for a federal investigation.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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