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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41801: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:51:28 PM

RE: Texas being racist as regards Voter ID. Yes it still is racist as fuck. I live here, I damn well know it's still racists. The Republicans are now largely in defense mode to keep the increasingly Hispanic demographics from being able to vote Democrat in large groups. You can't tell me it's not racist and not expect a funny look in your direction, folks. Our state government HAS NOT met the requirements it would take to get out from under the fed's control in this regard.

As regards legalization of prostitution: Here's the thing, and I'm taking it purely from a practical standpoint and not a religious one, the way things are now girls are far to easy to take advantage of when they're minors. And this is where prostitution starts for a lot of them. Legal brothels in Nevada, as far as I've seen, have it as a law that you use condoms, get a check up, and are actually paid something you can live on. A customer that treats you badly also gets thrown out of the establishment and not allowed back in. This is just my general knowledge of it at this moment.

The whole "tough titties" thing is going to happen anyway, because people are callous assholes and as adults we're expected to find ways to financially support ourselves. But legalization of it I think will go a long way in 1) preventing minors from being abused and trapped in this lifestyle, 2) generally prevent women in general from being abused as they now have the legal right to do this and also the ability to unionize and not rely on pimps on the street, and 3) also result in them being a lot healthier and a lot less cases of being hooked on drugs in the process.

#41802: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:51:43 PM

@Cats: The obvious problem with that is the potential for someone to claim after the fact that they were paid for sex, thus getting their unwitting victim in a heap of trouble.

Which of course falls under the whole "don't have sex with people you don't trust" issue, but in practice people don't do that.

That said, I do think that going after the demand is the only real way to stop human trafficking, which is a related issue.

edited 22nd Nov '12 5:52:43 PM by EdwardsGrizzly

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Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#41803: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:51:52 PM

Bringing it out into the light means that... if they have the IRS poking around... other people will be poking around. I'm not saying it'll suddenly turn the industry into sweetness and light.

But, it'll make doing the worst stuff a hell of a lot harder to get away with in the longer term. Particularly if employment rights are part of the package.

Yes, some would go underground... but, instead of everybody involved getting banged up left and right, you'd have the same deal for sweat-shops and illegal businesses in any sector. If the workers have rights in law and a means to pursue those rights legally, they have a chance to get their abusers prosecuted for abusing those rights.

edited 22nd Nov '12 5:53:11 PM by Euodiachloris

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#41804: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:52:44 PM

I don't think the logic that prostitution being legal will force people into prostitution instead of burger king holds up. For one, if you can't flip burgers your probably on welfare, disability or already turning tricks or selling drugs.

We (as in ontario) are currently having a legal fight over prostitution. The lower courts have ruled that you can run a brothel plus or minus a few other things but now it's up the supreme court to decide whether that ruling stands.

If you're interested, from what I recall the argument is about safety. Sex workers argue that the environment is very unsafe and therefore against our charter. The government's argument is that since the profession is illegal they can't expect to be covered by the law, prompting the counter-argument that if it's only unsafe because it's illegal it shouldn't be illegal.

Personally, I'm all for it. Mo' tax money; less dead hookers.

edited 22nd Nov '12 5:56:19 PM by thatguythere47

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41805: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:53:14 PM

I generally only support prostitution in well regulated environments, like official whore houses.

In other words, get a receipt!

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41806: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:54:26 PM

@Thatguy: the problem not being physically unable to flip burgers, but being places not hiring. Which is what is happening.

#41807: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:55:58 PM

RE: Texas being racist as regards Voter ID. Yes it still is racist as fuck. I live here, I damn well know it's still racists. The Republicans are now largely in defense mode to keep the increasingly Hispanic demographics from being able to vote Democrat in large groups. You can't tell me it's not racist and not expect a funny look in your direction, folks. Our state government HAS NOT met the requirements it would take to get out from under the fed's control in this regard.

I wouldn't know, I don;t live there. I was just trying to clarify the article somebody linked up upthread, based on what I read in some google searches.

<><
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41808: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:58:05 PM

@Tomu: Nevada's a weird case in that they have it in their constitution or something that any city with a population below some number can vote on whether or not prostitution is legal there. The funniest effect of this being that Las Vegas is the only city in Nevada where they have to comply with federal law as regards prostitution.

Anyway, once you make something legal that means there's going to be a lot of government oversight in it. Which means that would make things a hell of a lot safer. not perfectly, considering that prostitution is skeevy as hell, but legalization I think will alleviate a lot of the problems to a considerable degree.

[up] Living here and hearing the news, I tend to know what's up. I've been keeping up with Texas's antics lately as regards voter ID. Republicans are very concerned about it not being a stronghold for the party for very much longer. And this has resulted in some incredibly unethical behavior.

edited 22nd Nov '12 5:59:22 PM by AceofSpades

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#41809: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:58:22 PM

But, Cats... people face that... and currently wind up getting preyed upon to go into the sex industry as it is. tongue Making it legal might, at least, make such a horrible decision less dangerous for those having to face such hard choices. tongue

You shouldn't be punished for being forced to choose between a rock and a hard place. sad

edited 22nd Nov '12 6:00:16 PM by Euodiachloris

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#41810: Nov 22nd 2012 at 5:59:37 PM

@Cats: that doesn't change anything, really. If you can't work at burger king for whatever reason your options are limited.

But yeah, I don't have moral objections to the profession and in a practical sense I don't see the negatives outweighing the positives so it's a no-brainer for me.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#41811: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:03:07 PM

What Euo said. Forced prostitution is a horrible thing; there is no dispute about that. But prohibiting it won't stop that from happening. At least there will be some amount of oversight if it's legalized.

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41812: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:03:36 PM

Why not make prostitution legal but buying prostitutes illegal?

#41813: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:06:57 PM

It's unfortunately a little more difficult to prove guilt in the latter.

That could be an solution if that issue could be resolved.

edited 22nd Nov '12 6:07:19 PM by EdwardsGrizzly

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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41814: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:07:19 PM

[up][up]

You mean making Prostitution (the exchange of sex for money legal, but organized activities such as brothels and pimping illegal?

edited 22nd Nov '12 6:07:32 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41815: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:07:20 PM

[up][up]That's why we have receipt records.

[up]No, I mean all of those are legal, it's just that all your customers are criminals.

edited 22nd Nov '12 6:08:44 PM by ohsointocats

#41816: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:08:27 PM

Wait, what? You're telling me that someone is going to go in and put their name down on an illegal purchase they make?

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ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41817: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:09:14 PM

They're going to have to because they're buying from a legitimate business.

#41818: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:09:58 PM

You clearly don't understand how 'merica and cash-based transactions work.

<><
HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#41819: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:13:16 PM

@Deviant: That sounds like a good stipulation to me, actually. Pimps really just add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy and authoritarianism.

@Cats: Because I'm not against consensual sex that happens to involve a financial transaction, as long as that's all that's going on.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41820: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:15:18 PM

Cats, that's not actually legal prostitution at all. Also, they're not going to write their names down when they know they can get arrested for doing so.

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41821: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:16:17 PM

I just know it apparently worked for Sweden. Might have been Norway. It was one of the two.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41823: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:17:27 PM

[up][up]

Both Sweden and Norway consider prostitution illegal.

edited 22nd Nov '12 6:17:40 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#41824: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:39:01 PM

I honest don't see how anyone can think legalizing prostitution will make people that won't want to become prostitutes forced into it. Or that being forced to be a prostitute is honestly any worse than being forced to do any other low-wage job. Look, I've been hurting for cash before. There have been jobs that, although they'd pay well, I've passed up, because I'd feel uncomfortable doing so. I've had to settle for lower-paying jobs. I don't see how this would be much different. I just think the idea of selling sex for money hits some basic "Wrong" spot on a lot of people's moral compass, for reasons I honestly can't understand.

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41825: Nov 22nd 2012 at 6:55:51 PM

A large fraction of the population are not comfortable with strangers touching them, or with touching strangers.

Let me put it this way.

We complain about pharmacists not selling birth control or Plan B or whatever because it is their job to do that, despite their moral compass telling them no. We feel OK to be angry at them for this because becoming a pharmacist is not something to be taken lightly. It takes a lot of training and many years of schooling.

In contrast, we feel bad for the Wal-Mart strikers and the Wal-Mart employees made to work on Thanksgiving. We are more sympathetic to them because we know that many of them did not have much of a choice about working at Wal-Mart and many would work elsewhere if they could find employment elsewhere.

Ultimately, prostitution is more like being your average Wal-mart employee than being a pharmacist.

I would be more okay with making prostitution legal if it was a skilled job that people make an informed decision to become (two years prostitution school plus apprenticeship, whatever), however this would defeat the point. The people who would be most likely to become prostitutes would likely not have access to training and be forced into illegal prostitution, and the fact that training costs money would make it so illegal prostitution was still profitable anyway.


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