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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41676: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:02:57 PM

Speaking of Rand Paul...

Rand Paul "Interested" in 2016 Run for the White House

Also 97 House members oppose Susan Rice

edited 21st Nov '12 4:05:01 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41677: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:06:02 PM

Given how well his father did I doubt he'll win. It's probably going to be Santorum or Ryan. Nobody else makes sense to me.

Zephid Since: Jan, 2001
#41678: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:10:05 PM

The Ames Straw Poll is nothing but a fundraiser for the state Republican Party. It doesn't even do a good job of predicting the eventual nominee. I don't know why anyone in the party even bothers.

Imagine a world where Tim Pawlenty had actually stuck around longer instead of bowing out because of the straw poll. The "anyone but Romney" part of the conservative base might have actually given him a boost in the polls instead of, say, Herman Cain or Santorum. Sure, he was boring, but give him some spotlight and let him flare out for crying out loud.

I wrote about a fish turning into the moon.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#41679: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:16:12 PM

Pawlenty could well have won. Obama was not in good graces at the time, and Romney basically lost by a hair by sheer virtue of being an utter train wreck. A moderate Republican had as good a chance as he was ever going to get.

edited 21st Nov '12 4:16:53 PM by Pykrete

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41680: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:18:53 PM

I think you're overstating how close things were. It wasn't an utter blowout but Obama still won by 3.5 million votes and high percentages in all swing states except Florida and Ohio (which he didn't need). I don't think things would shift that badly.

edited 21st Nov '12 4:37:58 PM by Kostya

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#41681: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:21:12 PM

Any news on the "Fiscal Cliff?" Or is it a tense, western style standoff. (Or more likely, the democrats trying to desperately figure out how much they're going to have to conceed when the Principle Zealot Tea Partiers throw a tantrum.

Oh, going way back a few pages at Fish 1:

You said even if we continue to fact check, and call politicians on their lies, it wouldn't eliminate the problem. That's the Perfect Solution Fallacy at work. The point is, we can do something, and we have a responsibility, as citizens, to do something. What matters is chipping away at the culture of "lying" and "from a certain point of view" that pervades politics.

In a lot of cases that are "debated" there is an objective truth. The universe is not post-modernist. There's a reality out there. As human, we are imperfect, and can't always perceive it perfectly, but it's out there, and to continue to progress as a species, we should try to adhere as closely to reality as possible.

Edit: And when there honestly isn't an objective truth, what needs to be done is for us to figure out what works better for everyone.

edited 21st Nov '12 4:21:59 PM by DrTentacles

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41682: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:27:34 PM

@Pykrete: Tim Pawlenty would have had to have run a far better campaign that Romney, as well as somehow convince a lot of his fellow Republicans to not say the things they did or at least make heartfelt apologies. I feel like this election was as much against all that clusterfuck everyone else caused as much as it was a rejection of Romney.

And yeah, it really wasn't that close because those percentages in this case means millions of voters that went for Obama rather than Romney.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#41684: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:36:58 PM

[up] I don't like Moore that much (He's kinda an asshole, especially when he's correct), but he's got a point there. The cliff is, if not an invention of the rich, a tool for them. They'd be most affected by the any inflation that would result. (I honestly think it would be a decent idea to inflate the US dollar, but that might just be the student loan debt talking.)

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41685: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:38:20 PM

Inflation would lower the real burden of existing debt. A weakened dollar would also strengthen our exports, which would help with employment.

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#41686: Nov 21st 2012 at 4:49:32 PM

Moore is basically right. Letting all the tax cuts expire and proposing tax cuts for the middle class would give Obama huge leverage against the Republicans.

He still has no integrity as a filmmaker, but that's another issue.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#41687: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:18:40 PM

The problem with the Fiscal Cliff is it isn't just a bunch of tax increases. There's also an end to a bunch of federal unemployment benefits and across the board spending cuts as a part of the sequester. I mean, it's not as catastrophic as people are making it out to be, but it still isn't good and Moore is still wrong.

*Has researched this a bit in the making of this video.*

edited 21st Nov '12 5:19:34 PM by deathpigeon

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#41688: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:38:09 PM

Naturally, the solution is to go over the cliff, deflate the dollar, and offer a bill that undoes the cuts to vulnerable programs and reinstates the middle-class tax cuts while leaving the cuts to the military and the increased rates for the richest in place.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41689: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:39:34 PM

There have been rumors that some members of Congress secretly hope we go over the cliff, because that may be the only way to make revenue increases politically acceptable.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#41690: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:41:21 PM

[up][up] ...That's... Actually not half bad of a solution.

[up] Anyone who actually wants to balance the budget should be all for it since that's what the fiscal cliff will do.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41691: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:46:49 PM

[up][up][up]

That is a good plan, and getting the Middle Class tax cut reinstated is possible.

But the Republican House would block any measure that would undo the cuts to social programs, so any cuts made are gonna stay around for quite a while.

edited 21st Nov '12 5:49:45 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#41692: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:51:47 PM

If the Republicans insist on the Bush tax cuts being reinstated entirely, it would be a good time for the Greens to wake up and start running the ground game they should have been running years ago.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#41693: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:52:02 PM

...My problem with that plan is that, yes it would lead to good results, but that's the sort of plan that should wait until after we're out of the recession. We shouldn't be cutting funding to stuff that act as a social safety net, like Medicaid and Medicare, unless the economy is on stable ground.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41694: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:57:21 PM

[up]

The thing is that be it due to the Fiscal Cliff or The Grand Bargain, Social programs are going to be cut. That's inevitable at this point. We should go off the Fiscal Cliff because it is the lesser of the two evils.

edited 21st Nov '12 6:22:33 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#41695: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:59:59 PM

That is true. The Fiscal Cliff is much better than the Grand Bargain. At least the Fiscal Cliff cuts everything and less rather than three trillion dollars in cuts toward social programs. :/

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#41696: Nov 21st 2012 at 6:01:54 PM

Yeah, we lost those programs when we lost the House in 2010, and that was lost years before when we weren't paying attention to governorships and state legislatures. Recall that the Republicans won a net gain in Governor's seats across the country this month. Best to put us in a good position to win them back.

Which means the Greens have to forget about the Presidency for the moment and focus all their efforts on getting Governors, state legislators, and House members elected. Work from the bottom up.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41697: Nov 21st 2012 at 6:10:22 PM

I do not know. The whole health care thing makes me very angry. There are people like me who do not have cars and must walk anywhere if I want to get anywhere and still manage to be obese and just have shitty genes that just made me unhealthy to begin with.

edited 21st Nov '12 6:20:11 PM by ohsointocats

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#41698: Nov 21st 2012 at 6:13:50 PM

Considering that Republicans would probably let Obama put John Boehner on a hit list before they'd let him increase revenues even slightly, the cliff seems inevitable.

Wicked223 from Death Star in the forest Since: Apr, 2009
#41699: Nov 21st 2012 at 7:25:32 PM

What baffles me about the fiscal cliff situation is all the organizations which formerly made a living off of agitating for deficit reduction that suddenly made an about-face and complained about all the deficit reduction. What gives?

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#41700: Nov 21st 2012 at 7:36:08 PM

Maybe they don't actually care about deficit reduction, and only care about having political power, which having something to whine about helps them have? You know, just throwing that out there. >.>


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