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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

#41526: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:30:14 PM

It's obvious to any person who spends half a brain cycle thinking about it what he meant, and it's obvious to anyone with half a sense of morals that it isn't a reprehensible thing to believe. The continued misrepresentation of his views is yet another example of the desperate attempt by those who don't agree with conservative Christians on social issues to convince themselves that Christians are all women-haters and thus avoid having to actually engage with the real issues. I know those are harsh words, but after 6 months of observing this thread I really cannot come to any other conclusion.

<><
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#41527: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:31:35 PM

I don't think anyone was defending Mourdock's statement. The point Grizzy (and then many others) was making is that we should go after people for what they have said and not twist it. If nothing else twist is redundant in such a situation, you don't need spin to make "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen." sound bad.

Edit: I'm gona have to agree with Grizzy on some level on this, while I do think Mourdock's statement is wrong and bad in many ways (god shouldn't be in the conversation for one thing) there has been misinterpretation and outright lying by people on the left of the positions held by those on the right. It's wrong when Fox does it and it's just as wrong when we do it. Now I would stand that the manipulation is done less by the left than the right but that doesn’t make it any more acceptable.

Edit 2: Also, what [down] said.

edited 20th Nov '12 6:42:58 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#41528: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:40:31 PM

that Christians are all women-haters and thus avoid having to actually engage with the real issues.
Ahem. I'm a Christian. I just happen to think his comments regarding children created from rape are horrendously offensive, antiquated, and misogynistic (even if unintended). And he completely deserved to get crushed for it.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41529: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:42:53 PM

I think its funny that no one during the Indiana Senate race pointed out that Mourdock's Blue-Dog Democrat opponent was probably more pro-life than Mourdock himself.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad Mourdock got the can, but still.

Akin on the other hand was inexcusable. Did anyone even bother to explain the 'bird & bees' thing to him at any point in his life?

I mean he has 6 kids, he should know how a female's body works.

edited 20th Nov '12 6:46:56 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41530: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:47:25 PM

But not misrepresented on it.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#41531: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:49:18 PM

Frankly, the fact that something he said created such a vast amount of negative press is enough to discount him as a viable candidate, no matter the content of the comment.

Politicians are first and foremost diplomatic and persuasive speakers and if one running for major office can't think his way to "don't make any kind of decisive comment about rape when you're pro-life," then that makes them bad at politics. A viable candidate should have the right words for the right situation, and it's better to cull a screw-up before he makes a really big gaff.

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#41532: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:49:20 PM

@Deviant Braeburn Unfortunately, some people probably don't consider rape to be a necessary part of The Talk beyond "it's bad, don't do it".

Also, people tend to be closed-minded like that.

edited 20th Nov '12 6:50:23 PM by chihuahua0

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41533: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:52:27 PM

[up]

But where did he get the 'women can magically prevent rape pregnancies' idea from.

It just baffles me.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41534: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:03:44 PM

We have a rare confirmed sighting of post-election Mitt Romney.

He does not look good.

edited 20th Nov '12 7:08:43 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#41535: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:04:26 PM

Well, when you're in a social bubble where you haven't interacted with anyone who admitted to being raped and becoming pregnant, it's not much of a stretch to develop such a misconception.

"No raped, pregnant women"="women must have defenses"

More outrageous thoughts have been formed by Troll Logic. The logic here is definitely flawed but it has some grounding.

edited 20th Nov '12 7:05:16 PM by chihuahua0

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41536: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:20:36 PM

I consider the whole "Rape babies are good" thing to be a demonstration that that line of logic-the notion of divine will-IS bad, but that's another thread altogether, and I think we've prohibited religion threads by now?

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#41537: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:25:03 PM

[up]x4 The idea that a woman's body rejects forcible implantation and that therefore any woman who gets pregnant by rape was somehow inviting it was not original with Akin. It's an urban legend going back at least tp the 18th century, not unlike Akins whole worldview. But back then at least they had the excuse of genuinely not knowing much about how biology and physiology work.

edited 20th Nov '12 7:27:10 PM by tricksterson

Trump delenda est
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41538: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:27:09 PM

Deviant: Ordinarily I'd make a joke about Twilight doing that to him but it doesn't seem appropriate now.

He really doesn't look good...

[up]True but when a member on the house science committee says this something has clearly gone wrong.

#41539: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:35:15 PM

[up][up] People also often confuse the true statistic that very few women who seek abortions were raped with the idea that very few women who are raped get pregnant.

edited 20th Nov '12 7:37:20 PM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41540: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:41:37 PM

People do not understand statistics.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#41541: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:04:39 PM

They sure do.

I'm baaaaaaack
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41542: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:06:24 PM

So, basically, when God, your lord and master, offers you a gift, you should TAKE it.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41543: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:09:52 PM

Okay let's stop this derail. We've already beaten into the ground how stupid they are to have said the various things they've said. Nothing new about that unless they decide to start repeating themselves and get recorded in the media again. I imagine they're going to be a bit more paranoid now about getting caught saying things of that nature.

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41544: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:15:49 PM

@Joe: That sound was me face-palming into the stratosphere.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#41545: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:18:59 PM

"The continued misrepresentation of his views is yet another example of the desperate attempt by those who don't agree with conservative Christians on social issues to convince themselves that Christians are all women-haters and thus avoid having to actually engage with the real issues."

It's a side-effect of this site's bubble and it stretches far beyond misrepresentation into self-deception at times and really just bugs me me. We're supposed to be better. Tvtropes is all about being meta and genre savvy. Yet there are pages and pages of rambling doublethink in this very thread.

/bubble rant

new bubble rant/

Another side effect is that conservatives with extreme positions are often kicked out of OTC yet liberals are not driving the discourse more and more to the left. This, in turn, makes the bubble larger (thicker?) making it even more alienating to those with differing view points.

/really the end

" we should go after people for what they have said and not twist it."

What a novel concept.

" Unfortunately, some people probably don't consider rape to be a necessary part of The Talk beyond "it's bad, don't do it"."

There really isn't much else to it for guys. Rape is bad, don't do it. Repeat this sentence until it's drilled into your skull.

"More outrageous thoughts have been formed by Troll Logic. The logic here is definitely flawed but it has some grounding."

I wouldn't say grounding. The logic rests upon several unchecked assumptions hanging onto personal experiences. It's less grounded and more in a cloud, ready to fall if even the slightest logic touches it.

"I consider the whole "Rape babies are good" thing to be a demonstration that that line of logic-the notion of divine will-IS bad, but that's another thread altogether, and I think we've prohibited religion threads by now?"

I made a general thread that was ignored and our rules now want us to avoid theist/atheist debates, cuz you know, something interesting might come out of them. Also because our mod team is now our parents.

"It's an urban legend going back at least tp the 18th century, not unlike Akins whole worldview. But back then at least they had the excuse of genuinely not knowing much about how biology and physiology work."

I'm still not sure if he's ignorant or just made some bullshit up and then got called on it. He wouldn't be the first person to panic at an unexpected question and just blurt out the first thing to come to mind.

"True but when a member on the house science committee says this something has clearly gone wrong."

Welcome to politics, where there is a mutual non-verbal agreement to not get anything done. Anti-science nutters sit on the science committee so we can get our people on boards overseeing their shit. A giant clusterfuck designed to keep any one group from ramming their agenda through unopposed.

"People do not understand statistics."

Understatement of the century, says 34% of me.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41546: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:19:44 PM

[up][up][up]

How did this derail start again?

cuz you know, something interesting might come out of them.

Let's be honest, nothing comes out of those threads but bitterness.

Gaza: Clinton works for truce 'in the days ahead'

edited 20th Nov '12 8:25:54 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#41547: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:26:32 PM

-learned a lot about Buddhism and Christianity through those threads-

I disagree, completely.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41548: Nov 20th 2012 at 8:31:12 PM

Yeah well 93% of all statistics say I'm 86% right.

San Francisco bans nudity

edited 21st Nov '12 1:21:32 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#41549: Nov 21st 2012 at 1:08:04 AM

@Deviant: Link needs tinyurling.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#41550: Nov 21st 2012 at 1:40:41 AM

[up][up]

Penis Envy!*

@ thatguy:

Another side effect is that conservatives with extreme positions are often kicked out of OTC yet liberals are not driving the discourse more and more to the left. This, in turn, makes the bubble larger (thicker?) making it even more alienating to those with differing view points.

When even the most moderate, pragmatic of European Conservatives are on the right here and feel like they have to keep their head down, you know there's a problem.

And Another Thing...: Krugman isn't God!

edited 21st Nov '12 1:41:41 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

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