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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#41426: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:17:37 AM

Riling up voters so they can get elected.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41427: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:18:23 AM

and I think it's only cultural conditioning that makes you so insistent that you must be a Republican, because in reality, mainstream Democrats are conservatives.

So maybe it's the cultural conditioning that makes Democrats insist on not admitting that they're classic Republicans??

It was an honor
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#41428: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:22:39 AM

I think it's something a lot of democrats are aware of just as they're aware of how much of a spectrum our party covers these days. Democrats don't vote in lockstep because we're not just one group with one idea. The Republicans are one narrow bit of the political spectrum and that leaves the Democrats holding the bag for everything else.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#41429: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:25:01 AM

@Shima: which is very unfortunate. It would be nice to actually have a party that represented one's views, but if you're not in agreement with what the Republicans vote lockstep on, you don't have one.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41430: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:29:20 AM

Whatever happened to "In America you can ALWAYS find a party"?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41431: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:29:43 AM

It's more because Democrats believe in consensus as a social value, hence we try not to act like a@%holes.

@Handle: Because they dont know they cant win it. God, after all, is on their side.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41432: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:32:01 AM

I think you're straw-manning a little.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41433: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:36:58 AM

That's only because you aren't familiar with domestic US politics. The Kansas state school board has more than once tried to exclude evolution from the public school curriculum, for example. There's a whole culture war going on over here over what should and shouldnt be taught in the public schools.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41434: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:37:21 AM

[up][up]Which part? If it's the latter, that's not strawman. My cousin claimed Romney couldn't lose because God was on his side, and when he did immediately blamed Obama's pact with Satan.

edited 20th Nov '12 10:37:35 AM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41435: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:46:13 AM

No, I meant the part about "God being on our side and not anyone else's", especially hen there's abundant evidence of opposing groups (such as, say, the Taliban), claiming the same thing in good faith, and achieving a victory every now and then.

And, well, if God's actually on your side, it doesn't matter if you made a deal with Satan; God is kind of on an entirely different level and sort of overrules Satan as if he was less than the virtually inexistent penumbra of a speck of dust as seen from the surface of a planet several billion light-years away.

As in, everything that ever happens is the will of God. You can choose to get mad, or ignore it, or accept it, but blaming bad things happening on satan is dualistic, Manichean, and just plain heretic..

So tell you're*

cousin he better watch his mouth, lest he pisses off God for daring to suggest Satan could stop him.

edited 20th Nov '12 10:47:22 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#41436: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:46:52 AM

[up][up] They are more willing to accept that Satan is stronger than God than being wrong?

edited 20th Nov '12 10:47:11 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#41437: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:46:54 AM

[up]x3 Yeah because that changes anything...

I mean really. It's an insult to those who think God has chosen Obama as a generally more competent leader.

edited 20th Nov '12 10:47:31 AM by Trivialis

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41438: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:54:30 AM

I've stopped trying to talk logic to my family members. It just gives me a headache.

In other news, Allen West concedes. Finally.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41439: Nov 20th 2012 at 10:55:21 AM

Joe Biden just turned 70.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41440: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:02:13 AM

[up][up]Why? It's great fun, scholastic debates and byzantine arguments! I remember once successfully spinning the story of Abraham's Sacrifice (which is about how you should try to kill your own son if God tells you to, and if you're the son you should support your poor father) into a lesson about the importance of disobedience (basically, if what a dictactor tells you to do goes against God's dictates, and thus morality, you should not obey them, because God outranks them infinitely, also, he can't threaten you, because obeying God is also more important than preserving your own life or that of members of your family, and you should let them be killed rather than obey their criminal orders). Religion is fun like that.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41441: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:06:37 AM

I agree, but it's off topic. Start a thread on it...

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41442: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:09:19 AM

Nah, that's okay. I just meant to say that, when talking to fundies, don't even bother using the voice of reason. Pose as one of their in-group, and use their own arguments against them. And President Bartlett is best president.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#41443: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:10:22 AM

Don't try to sabotage conversations, Handle. I'm sure we have a fundamentalist here speaking with reason.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#41444: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:20:32 AM

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to say "reason" in the classical sense of "deliberate discourse", but in the modern sense of Bayesian, empiricial, philosophical realism. As far as I'm concerned, when you say "who are you to declare others' opinion false" and that kind of thing, you're not using reason.

"Reasonable", in my book, doesn't mean "is polite and civil", "is axiomatically self-consistent", or "is suggestible", although those are helpful traits. It's "bows to empirital evidence".

You said something about explaining your position to me via PM. Now would be a good time to send it. I won't be able to reply for a few hours though.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#41445: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:36:26 AM

O'Reilly: A coalition of non-tradition voters who don't believe in american exceptionalism voted Obama in.

(Yes, the headline is crap.)

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#41446: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:45:47 AM

Stewart does O'Reilly favors by treating him as an equal. Or maybe he knows Bill personally and thinks he doesn't believe all the crap that he spouts on Fox News. Still... ugh.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#41447: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:47:13 AM

"Traditional American voters generally want a smaller government in Washington, more local control, some oversight on abortion, and believe in American exceptionalism."

And, purely incidentially naturally, vote republican?

"You can reply to this Message!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#41448: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:49:00 AM

Yeah, Traditional Americans. With a capital T.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#41449: Nov 20th 2012 at 11:56:21 AM

You know, it's really wonderful when you can define a term in terms of its own definition and call it a day, moral victory held high, and not get yelled at for it.

"Traditional Americans are those Americans who hold values that define Traditional Americans, which I arbitrarily define as [X]." Someone throw this man a Begging the Question fallacy!

edited 20th Nov '12 11:57:17 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#41450: Nov 20th 2012 at 12:06:56 PM

You know, not trying to pull Godwin's Law here but, there was the time when people called you not a "true german" for not voting the NSDAP...

That does very much remind me of that.

edited 20th Nov '12 12:07:53 PM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"

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