TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41201: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:44:42 PM

...I guess you really are a liberal.

Repeat that disgraceful slander, and you'll be hearing from my laywers..

@Ekuran - Okay, you're strawmanning and baseless assuming was charming. Now it is becoming grating.

That you, like many people, have a rather narrow Us or Them view of things is a problem with your perception. I'm not going to label myself something just to fit one of your boxes.

And dude, stop saying I'm arguing against welfare. Every time you do, you make yourself seem less and less credible.

edited 19th Nov '12 3:54:58 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#41202: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:45:23 PM

I still get amused when people call the centre right or left "liberal". waii It's soooo cute!

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41203: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:46:09 PM

I think Starship wants to be a conservative, because he believes in the value of fiscal freedom of capitalism. It's just that he's molding it under social support as necessary while keeping that freedom intact as much as possible. There's a wishful conservative sentiment inside the center-left decision-making.

Now, this is interesting. Elaborate please.

It was an honor
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#41204: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:47:30 PM

Newt Gingrich is a principle-less opportunist who believes his own press. Do not think for a minute that this conciliatory "reformer" version is any more real than the hyper-conservative primary season one.
The man still lead the Republican Revolution that got us into a lot of our current mess. He's pretty much what I have a problem with general Republican Lawmakers. ¬¬ And why I keep getting so furious.

On the otherhand, Moon Palace.

Anyways, Republican Representatives with half a brain are going to distance themselves from Romney's words. ... And then repackage them in a more palatable way.

I still get amused when people call the centre right or left "liberal".
Welcome to America. I'm glad we can be your international clown. Honk honk. :3

edited 19th Nov '12 3:48:36 PM by PotatoesRock

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#41205: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:48:30 PM

Then why the fuck are you saying you're conservative.

I am not strawmanning you when you say you're for welfare, specifically the Nordic Model's stance on welfare, which is one of the most liberal models in the world, but then you say you're conservative.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#41206: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:50:56 PM

I mean that, you seem to believe in the ideals of conservatism, but you will concede to necessary progressive measures while holding onto that ideal.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#41207: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:52:09 PM

@Eku: Pragmatism does not associate itself with sides. The nordic model works. They are doing better then us and their quality of life is better then ours. Therefore their model is worth adopting. Any capitalist who doesn't see that is not a capitalist.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41208: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:53:36 PM

@Ekuran and Trivialis - Or....

Maybe what you believe conservatism to be what's flawed, which indicates the wider issue with this whole labelling system anyways.

[up] [awesome][tup][tup][awesome]. What he said.

edited 19th Nov '12 3:54:11 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#41209: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:54:44 PM

No, I don't think conservatism is what's flawed. It's just probably not the right attitude to apply for current situation of poverty.

edited 19th Nov '12 3:55:01 PM by Trivialis

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#41210: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:54:56 PM

Pragmatism is, actually, one of the hallmarks of Classic Conservative thought. It it works, don't fix it... if it doesn't, try to fix it without busting the status quo beyond repair. tongue

"Conservative" doesn't have to automatically mean "recidivist". tongue

edited 19th Nov '12 3:55:18 PM by Euodiachloris

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#41211: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:55:41 PM

Yes, but Starship also holds a lot of radical left policies especially when it comes to pollution and corporate responsibility. All of his political positions are liberal or at the very least moderate other than his abortion stance. I think he's just gotten so used to calling himself a conservative that he doesn't realise that the label has no actual relation to his political beliefs.

Calling yourself a fish doesn't make you a fish. You're still human. You're just bad at self labelling. Starship is bad at self labelling.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#41212: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:56:24 PM

I'm not (specifically) arguing for a side. I'm arguing for an economic model that works against someone who agrees, and yet says they espouse the same economic views of a group that directly contrasts against that model.

[up]Yes. That. Exactly that.

Dude, just say you're liberal. We have cookies and you agree with us.

edited 19th Nov '12 3:57:31 PM by Ekuran

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41213: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:57:23 PM

[up][up][up] Precisely.

Also, true capitalists deeply resent people gaming the system, the bizarro Monopoly game I'm talking about.

Withholding proper education, healthcare, and economic opportunity and thus ensuring, to use Fighteer's awesome metaphor, the plucky guy who works a day job but creates the next big thing in his basement and goes on to spectacular wealth doesn't get that chance...

That's an abomination and an offense to true capitalist sentiment.

edited 19th Nov '12 3:58:56 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#41214: Nov 19th 2012 at 3:58:09 PM

The Truth is: American "Conservatives" aren't Conservative at all.

edited 19th Nov '12 4:00:02 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41216: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:01:07 PM

Shima, I Take Offense to That Last One. (not really)

@Ekuran - I appreciate the invite, and I do like cookies. But actually this proves to me why labels are A Bad Idea.

It was an honor
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#41217: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:01:48 PM

I pretty much have the same beliefs as starship here, I actually had a teacher confused when I told him I agree with some Republican ideas but was a democrat. he was saying I should be a republican or some such. [lol]

I'm baaaaaaack
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#41218: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:03:42 PM

Rick Santorum: GOP must reach Latinos

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#41219: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:04:29 PM

American "Conservatives" are Reactionaries. A conservative distrusts change, and, as a result, seeks to change slowly and cautiously, or, to put it in other words, is conservative with change. A reactionary seeks to turn back the clock, and change the world to how it used to be. A liberal is someone who likes change, and feels like we should be adaptable and able to change quickly, or, to put it in other words, is liberal with change. A radical seeks to radically change everything to create a new system entirely.

The Republican party fits very cleanly into the definition of reactionary. The Democratic party fits very cleanly into the definition of conservative.

edited 19th Nov '12 4:06:58 PM by deathpigeon

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41220: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:05:54 PM

@Joesolo - Or how about when you say you are dead set against abortion, but you actually think Planned Parenthood does a lot of good in the world.

I've seen a talking kooala with horns not get that many stares.

It was an honor
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#41221: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:06:37 PM

So I got you to stop calling yourself conservative. Hm.

Step 1: Get Starship to admit he's not conservative/regressive/reactionary, especially not economically.

Status: Complete.

Step 2: Get Starship to change his stance on    Social Issues   .

Status: On-going.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#41222: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:07:58 PM

In a rational world, politicians like Obama would be labeled conservative for seeking a "balanced approach" to solving problems that consists mainly of relabeled Republican ideas. And that word would be respected rather than the mockery it is today.

From any sane perspective, climate change would be a conservative issue as well as a liberal one. I mean, you don't get much more "status quo" than keeping human beings alive for the next century. We can argue about how to deal with it, to be sure: conservatives could argue for carbon taxes, "cap and trade" systems, higher fuel efficiency standards, and subsidies that incentivize the free market to deal with the problem, while liberals could push for nationalization of key industries and banning petroleum-burning cars.

That the former set of positions are now branded "liberal" is a travesty of reason.

edited 19th Nov '12 4:11:19 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#41223: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:08:06 PM

Yes, but Starship also holds a lot of radical left policies especially when it comes to pollution and corporate responsibility. All of his political positions are liberal or at the very least moderate other than his abortion stance. I think he's just gotten so used to calling himself a conservative that he doesn't realise that the label has no actual relation to his political beliefs.

Eh. The way I see it, our right has gone so damned far right that they've stopped being a good goalpost for conservatism. I'd consider myself fiscally conservative under most circumstances, but we've hit a point right now that I like to refer to as "why we can't have nice things".

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#41224: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:10:20 PM

[up][up] It give my universe a sense of balance and order that Fighteer consistently calls it what it is. [tup]

Well good luck there Ekuran [lol]!

edited 19th Nov '12 4:11:28 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#41225: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:13:51 PM

I have done it before, you know.

Admittedly, that person was already questioning their beliefs, but I've done it.

Don't worry, you'll be tasting my cookies soon enough as well.tongue


Total posts: 417,856
Top