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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SomeSortOfTroper Since: Jan, 2001
#40626: Nov 16th 2012 at 10:44:22 AM

The recent discussion points make me think of the ideas of the social contract e.g. "Is it fair to ask someone to work in a society if actually being in that society isn't of benefit to them?" A poor person shouldn't be stuck eating food that leaves them worse off than a hunter-gatherer society because there's no point to society for them then; no point in working to contribute to scientific and medical advantages if they're not going to make your life longer. But without society, the lawyer doesn't get to be a lawyer; what the extra taxes pay for is the opportunity to be a lawyer. It's an argument that works all around- no point in being a lawyer if there's no extra benefit- but I think one would have to be blind to a lot of information to not think that the wealthier segments of US society have been reaping most of the benefits lately.

I also think of the two farms model: there are two farms, they both try to raise cattle and grow wheat but one day they agree-one shall just raise cattle, the other will just grow wheat; they find that one farm with just wheat grows more than two farms trying to grow wheat as well as raise cattle and similarly with the cattle so they split the produce and enjoy the bounty of their agreement. However say that they live in good wheat country and the cattle farmer has an extra efficiency of one tenth while the wheat farmer has an extra efficiency of one fifth, would we automatically say that this means that the wheat farmer can keep all the extra fifth to himself?

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40627: Nov 16th 2012 at 10:52:21 AM

No. They should split all the cattle and wheat equally.

QuestionMarc Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#40628: Nov 16th 2012 at 10:57:58 AM

Not to be a party pooper you guys, but is that topic still related anymore, or are we just comparing economic models?

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#40629: Nov 16th 2012 at 11:06:41 AM

Well what's there to talk about at the moment? I don't see any politician committing malarky-like statements (beats using the g word all the time),no controversial issues that'll last a while now that Prop. 34 has been defeated,and no Dem seems to dare raise taxes on the rich in execution,there's just nothing at all.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#40630: Nov 16th 2012 at 11:20:17 AM

[up]A couple pages previous says that's a lie, actually. Some Dems really don't want Obama to back down on the idea of raising taxes. "One dollar of revenue for every dollar of cuts" pretty much translates to more taxes or close loopholes. (Loopholes are cheating anyway, far as I'm concerned.)

If this trend of democratic support among the voting base continues, the stigma against taxes should fade, actually.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#40631: Nov 16th 2012 at 11:33:37 AM

Yeah one select guy,ultimately I'm not even sure the Dems are adamant enough about raising them,that if something serious happens such I dunno holding the unemployment benefits hostage again,even these guys will back down and the rich will be off scot-free

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40632: Nov 16th 2012 at 2:05:16 PM

The National Weather Service may be going under the knife.

“Less than two weeks after Hurricane Sandy caused massive damage to our nation’s largest metropolitan area and before all the people in the area have even got there power back on, NOAA has revealed its plan to dismantle the National Weather Service and eliminate meteorologists that provided warnings that saved many people lives,” said Daniel Sobien, president of the NWSEO.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#40634: Nov 16th 2012 at 2:53:02 PM

what. THE. FUCK

I'm baaaaaaack
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40635: Nov 16th 2012 at 3:09:25 PM

Seems the NWS had a little budgetary shortfall — as in, the funds to pay its workers' salaries went missing. There is a faint odor of fried paper in its accounting department.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#40636: Nov 16th 2012 at 3:30:04 PM

NWS dismantled?

My dad is going to have a shitfit.

edited 16th Nov '12 3:30:22 PM by ohsointocats

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40637: Nov 16th 2012 at 3:40:34 PM

@ Handle:

How about we don't think in terms of sides? Why should we believe beliefs about policies come in pre-packaged bundles?

I agree with you there, as anyone who's read another thread here knows — it's one of the problems I've got with American Culture.

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#40638: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:00:27 PM

Don't think of it as "American culture", think of it as "that cluster of memes that are common in these United States of America".

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#40639: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:17:32 PM

So uh...apparently Hostess being liquidated is Obama's fault somehow.

Who knew.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40640: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:22:58 PM

[up]Who is saying that?

@Weather thing: WHAT! This is absurd! Please tell me it's not a result of the budget cuts the government will face.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#40641: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:24:38 PM

Every comment section in any news article about this.

They're overlooking the fact that the CEO of hostess tripled his salary.

edited 16th Nov '12 4:26:57 PM by Thorn14

johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#40642: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:27:47 PM

Well, to be precise, the stock downturn is Obama's fault. It's just gong to bounce back again though.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40643: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:28:38 PM

[up]I'm curious how is the downturn his fault?

[up][up]Why are you reading the comments?

edited 16th Nov '12 4:28:51 PM by Kostya

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#40644: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:30:39 PM

[up]

Because I'm a masochist.

[up][up]

I'm pretty sure that the stock downturn was from the economy going "OH FUCK THATS RIGHT FISCAL CLIFF" after everyone was so distracted from the election.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40645: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:32:33 PM

[up]More specifically it was brought on by "Oh fuck, these assholes are still in charge! It's the debt ceiling all over again!"

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#40646: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:49:11 PM

Hostess was doomed anyway. It's been in a financial down spiral for years. Anyone who thinks Hostess's problems are due to anything other than persistent mismanagement are looking for shallow confirmation of their own biases.

(That said, I DID just buy seventy dollars of snack food just in case those artery-murdering strawberry cupcakes never come back.)

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#40647: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:51:55 PM

Its not like the recipe will go away, it'll just have a different name.

So we might see, I dunno, Nabisco (if they're still around?) Cake Snakes or something.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#40648: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:54:00 PM

[up]Never fear: Nestlé is here... to buy up anything loose that isn't nailed down. tongue

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#40649: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:57:52 PM

[up][up][up] and [up][up] Must... resist... talk about... cu[up]pcake recipes... I failed. Do they also do sanvitches at Hostess? [up]Maybe Hasbro could start a cupcakes chain? I would go. Ahem. Cough.

edited 16th Nov '12 5:01:19 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#40650: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:58:37 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/13/opinion/granderson-democrats/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

This is pretty accurate. The Democrats can't count on getting in by no being the Republicans forever. And they really need to solve that midterm election turn out problem.

edited 16th Nov '12 7:00:32 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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