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Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40601: Nov 16th 2012 at 1:21:16 AM

West Virginia's Jay Rockefeller and Tom Harkin of Iowa are circulating a letter among their Democratic colleagues that calls on the president to stand firm on revenue, entitlement programs and spending cuts. They're hoping to get as many as 30 Senate Democrats to sign on, Rockefeller said.

The letter, which was obtained by POLITICO, says the president should insist on $1 in revenue for each $1 in spending cuts. It also says that the $917 billion in spending cuts (enacted under last year's agreement to increase the debt ceiling) should be counted toward the next round of deficit reduction.

That's a balanced approach. That's a rational approach. Yet Politico calls that plan "DRAMATIC".

edited 16th Nov '12 1:23:11 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40602: Nov 16th 2012 at 1:25:34 AM

^

A few little words on Israel: There's a General Election coming up there on the 22nd January.

edited 16th Nov '12 1:26:05 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#40603: Nov 16th 2012 at 1:38:52 AM

In regards to Politico's statement of "dramatic" maybe the Democrats need to get a little dramatic in order to motivate people. *shrug*

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#40604: Nov 16th 2012 at 1:44:09 AM

Any thread on Israel has been locked or nuked. So please don't make another. Those thread never end well.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#40605: Nov 16th 2012 at 4:38:35 AM

[up]

Its like I said on the Israel seems to be relying too much on its victimization past Thread

Ah, Israel.

The third most controversial topic after abortion and Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

edited 16th Nov '12 4:39:12 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#40606: Nov 16th 2012 at 5:52:42 AM

Oh, come on, the nuke aren't controv-

Ah.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

I see what you did there.

And yes, I went to sleep it off. I now notice that my behaviour last night was... well, not unacceptable, but barely acceptable. I wasn't mocking Perry, though, I was just pointing out the possibility of an Insult Backfire.

As for "backwaters" not being interesting for companies to service, couldn't there be government grants or other such regulation that would make it interesting? I mean, if access to information becomes so hugely different between cities and the countryside, no wonder values would evolve at dramatically different speeds.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#40607: Nov 16th 2012 at 7:56:28 AM

A lot of the problems about healthcare and such seem to be about who "deserves" it. Veterans definitely deserve it, and seniors have paid their dues to society so they deserve it, sort of, but they're becoming less worthy.

The real problem with this debate is that we're looking at what people deserve and not what actually seems to work in reigning in the exploding cost of these things.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40609: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:03:16 AM

[up][up] Heck, that's a pretty common problem in general in the US. Just look at the people who say that we shouldn't give the homeless assistance because they don't deserve it, for example.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40610: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:14:41 AM

The real problem with this debate is that we're looking at what people deserve and not what actually seems to work in reigning in the exploding cost of these things.

Heck, that's a pretty common problem in general in the US. Just look at the people who say that we shouldn't give the homeless assistance because they don't deserve it, for example.

Both very good thought-provoking points. And one that sums up the difficulty with getting things done.

The left (although I have no idea what that even means, since depending on who you ask, I'm either a classic rightie, or a classic leftie) argues "Just give people what they need dammit!"

But, I ask, is it fair that someone who worked hard and did what they had to get a job that paid them a nice severance and retirement package isn't entitled to that hard work? Is it fair that someone who settled for relatively low-risk, low-effort retail work should be rewarded the same as someone who actually sat through the decade plus of schooling necessary to be a top-flight attorney?

It was an honor
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40611: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:19:32 AM

Is someone being rewarded the same by having the same healthcare, when the one who worked really hard probably has a huge house and eats lavish dinners, while the one who got a retail job rents a small apartment with two or three roommates and eats maybe one proper meal a day, when he or she is lucky?

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40612: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:26:29 AM

[up][up]

That you actually think Retail work is low risk or low effort is funny. An attorney worked hard for his degree, sure. But he'll never have to risk repetitive strain injuries from his day to day work activities, lack of healthcare for conditions that will be ignored until they can no longer be ignored, or having stress related disorders due to trying desperately to hold on to an apartment and enough food to eat between paychecks.

edited 16th Nov '12 8:30:32 AM by Midgetsnowman

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40613: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:27:13 AM

Well dp, I think my counter-question to you is, did the person eating lavish dinners and living in a nice house do something wrong by virtue of having those things??

@Midget - I gave the wrong impression. I currently work retail.

Let me better explain. I have a degree and I'm getting paid the same as people without. I don't find anything wrong with this as we're doing the same job.

I got promoted earlier this year. I got the promotion because everytime someone had to stay late, I did. I got promoted because inventory was actually done properly when it was my turn to do it. I didn't poach from the storeroom.

As a result, I get sick time and vacation leave. Did I do something wrong?

edited 16th Nov '12 8:30:22 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40614: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:32:07 AM

[up]

No. But by the same token. why on earth would I want to work hard for a company that believes I dont deserve time off when I'm sick or be afforded basic human dignity? Y'now why I slacked off when I worked in fast Food? Because I knew full well I could work my ass off and receive no reward for it.

Some people do it anyhiw. For a lot of us, its a simple equation of "well, yes, I could put my heart and soul into this job. But they dont give a shit about me unless I do so and even then they likely wont, so why should I give a shit about them?"

edited 16th Nov '12 8:39:44 AM by Midgetsnowman

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40615: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:32:13 AM

No, but is it wrong to ask them to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes when they can still maintain about the same lifestyle with the money deducted as without so that those who are poorer can have basic stuff like healthcare, shelter, food, or water when they might not be able to afford any of those, even on their own?

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40616: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:32:47 AM

@Max: No, but the question here is, are people who need assistance doing something wrong?

I have friends who are currently trying to make the hard decision between going to college and eating, for example, because food stamps aren't offered to college students. Should they be punished for trying to better themselves?

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40617: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:47:10 AM

No, but is it wrong to ask them to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes when they can still maintain about the same lifestyle with the money deducted as without so that those who are poorer can have basic stuff like healthcare, shelter, food, or water when they might not be able to afford any of those, even on their own?

I'd be willing to do it.

Some people do it anyway. For a lot of us, its a simple equation of "well, yes, I could put my heart and soul into this job. But they dont give a shit about me unless I do so, so why should I give a shit about them?"

I get your point Midget, but surely you can appreciate that some people would rather not incentivize people for doing less.

I have friends who are currently trying to make the hard decision between going to college and eating, for example, because food stamps aren't offered to college students. Should they be punished for trying to better themselves?

College students don't get food stamps?? Seriously? What if they're single parents?

edited 16th Nov '12 8:49:03 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40618: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:48:42 AM

I'd be willing to do it.

...Then we appear to agree.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40619: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:50:29 AM

pigeon, we tend to agree on a lot. Like I said, true capitalists like myself want people to have more not less. The more people there are gainfully employed and with full bellies means fewer criminals and more people to buy more stuff.

Honestly, controlled socialism is a capitalist's dream!

It was an honor
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40620: Nov 16th 2012 at 8:52:27 AM

@Max: Nope. You don't get any sort of welfare when you're in college. It's assumed that if you're rich enough to go to college, you're rich enough to feed yourself/pay for housing.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40621: Nov 16th 2012 at 9:06:55 AM

[up][up] Tell that to the rest of you. Too many don't get that. At all. Thanks to the ones that don't get that Marxist Communism happened, and, by extension, Leninist, Stalinist and Maoist Communism happened, and gave the rest of us Communists a bad rep.

edited 16th Nov '12 9:07:24 AM by deathpigeon

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40622: Nov 16th 2012 at 9:22:58 AM

[up] Don't complain dude. You don't get stuck trying to explain away the like of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

[up][up]

@Max: Nope. You don't get any sort of welfare when you're in college. It's assumed that if you're rich enough to go to college, you're rich enough to feed yourself/pay for housing.

That may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Clearly we have work to do.

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40623: Nov 16th 2012 at 9:26:17 AM

[up]

Not only that, but a lot of places dont work like your workplace. A lot of retail stores or convenience stores or fast food, your only real reward for lots of hard work is customers screaming at you anyhow.

It doesnt exactly engender a lot of brand loyalty and hard work.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40624: Nov 16th 2012 at 9:32:28 AM

[up][up] ...I now feel lucky I only have to explain away the likes of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

...You should totes join my side!

edited 16th Nov '12 9:32:47 AM by deathpigeon

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#40625: Nov 16th 2012 at 9:40:29 AM

How about we don't think in terms of sides? Why should we believe beliefs about policies come in pre-packaged bundles?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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