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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It can be complete BS, but if you say something enough times and with enough conviction people will believe it.
Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.Dan Rather: Republicans Need To Get Back In The "Fact-Based World"
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Fine. I think I'll happily live with my heavily censored BBC then, thanks.
At least when it screws up an investigation and makes mistakes, heads roll and they report on it
. In detail: some of the comments over the Radio have been... scathing. And, this is just from the presenters.
edited 15th Nov '12 4:56:59 AM by Euodiachloris
x3 I don't think that's what I'm talking about.
There's a difference between "Supreme Court strikes down Obamacare" and "Republicans state Obamacare raises taxes on middle class". The former is a mistake in news report; it should be corrected. The latter is reporting a statement made by a person or group of persons. Regardless of whether the statement should be trusted, there's no mistaking in reporting it.
See what I typed up just now.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:23:45 PM by Trivialis
Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Peter Welch: Congress unlikely to avoid 'fiscal cliff'
edited 14th Nov '12 11:26:17 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016Triv: "Republicans lie, saying Obama raises taxes on middle class" is news. Framing it as "Well, Republicans say this while Democrats say that" without actually presenting the facts-which include that the Democrats are right in this case-is not news.
If there is reasonable doubt as to whether something is a lie or not, then fine. But we're talking about cases where there is no reasonable doubt, and presenting it otherwise creates the false impression that there is.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:31:53 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
Except "Republicans lie" is not news. That's original research
. That's, again, the job of an intelligent viewer (like you, Tomu), not the news media itself.
The whole point of living in a society where we can't force people to convert to the "truth", is that being right is not all that matters. We have to coexist with people with different opinions. That means we have to be fair to some extent.
Now news media can have opinions sections and commentary segments. And you could encourage the voters, for instance, to do further research based on the given information. I don't think, however, that media should usurp all responsibility of truthfinding and just spoonfeed the viewers. That gives too much power to the media, and when that is misdirected, well, we get Fox News so many people here like to complain about.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:37:18 PM by Trivialis
Presenting false information as though it is truth is not news.
Presenting something that is blatantly false as if it were not false is no different from presenting something that is false as if it were true. It's called journalism.
Whether something is true or not is a fact-ergo, it is part of the news.
Anyway, I'm done with this line of discussion.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:37:55 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
So, hypothetically speaking, when Todd Akin made his infamous rape remark should the media have been allowed to point out that he was wrong and that women can be impregnated by rape?
edited 14th Nov '12 11:38:59 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016But the news has a responsibility to not just report statements by any random joe and present it as "news". "Scientist Joe Barker Says Aliens Will Land In New York" deserves both the headline, and the fact that he doesn't have any proof of this. News should report not just shit people say, but actual facts that go along with this.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickPresenting something that is blatantly false as if it were not false is no different from presenting something that is false as if it were true. I'm really sure what about this isn't getting through to you. It's called journalism.
Anyway, I'm done with this line of discussion.
How is "X said something" false information? It's not about whether that "something" is true or false; that's not media's job to interpret. There's a difference between firsthand and secondhand. Just how far do you want media to investigate the truth? Media isn't a group of philosophers and scholars.
I mean really, who are you to say whether it's true or false? Isn't that your interpretation?
If you want to drop the discussion, fine, but my point is that being "right" doesn't excuse being haughty.
Savita Halappanavar, 31-year old Irish woman, was 17 weeks pregnant and went to the hospital. The doctors found that she was miscarrying, and she asked for an abortion because of the pain. The doctors denied her request, because they only perform abortions when the woman's life is in danger. She died a few days later.
Why bring this up if it's from Ireland? Well, knowing that story, I don't ever want anyone to say "Oh, they're pulling the 'what if she's gonna die' card". Not from here, not from anyone. Women and unborn children are dying as a result of doctors refusing to, at the very least, Shoot the Dog.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:45:07 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.Re: [1]
Yes. OBVIOUSLY the media should have framed it as "Todd Akin makes scientific mistake regarding conception."
The media shouldn't necessarily make value judgments (such as "Todd Akin is a horrible congressman BECAUSE he makes mistakes regarding conception), but it is the job of the news media to present the truth, not just the narrative of two competing sides.
Re: [2]
Because it's explicitly not presenting the extremely relevant fact that such thing is a blatant lie!
The POINT of the News media is to be objective. How the hell can you expect the populace to determine what's true if they don't have a source of objectivity to begin with?
When did "the media" and "fact checking" become two entirely distinct entities? What is with this mentality? This strikes me as absolutely mad.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:45:23 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
Did you see the edited part of my post
?
I do think more can be done to encourage voters to be more informed and participating, giving them some efficacy/responsibility. Saying that media should present absolute truth takes away responsibility.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:46:20 PM by Trivialis
It's not usurping the role of fact checking. The news was the fact checkers to begin with. Since the news decided to abandon the role of fact checking, you have fact checkers online do it instead, but this should be considered a national tragedy that such a thing had to come to pass.
What purpose is there in a news media that is absent of fact checking?
And what purpose is there in abandoning objectivity? This strikes me as asinine at best, and downright absurd at worst.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:48:17 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
The Bible never talks about abortion, last I checked. Yet when people are pro-choice, the loudmouthed ones tend to be Bible-thumping. Then you see guys like Grizzly, who doesn't seem religious. His argument is more of whether or not the fetus is sentient/living.
Vocal Minority versus Silent Majority.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:49:21 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.MSNBC and Fox are both terrible choices for news. You go there for opinion and analysis.
News needs to be objective. CNN and BBC should be where you get those. Adding bias to stories, regardless of which side their bias exists, lessens the values of news and puts you in a media cocoon outside the realm of fact.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:51:58 PM by Completion
CNN is not objective. They're neutral.
Case in point, when they showed a poll of Romney trailing Obama by ten, CNN called it a "slight" lead for Obama.
That is what I call the bias of neutrality. When you're obsessed with not picking a side and giving straight news instead of checking the facts, you're a fucking robot.
edited 14th Nov '12 11:53:42 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

To be fair. The problem is many people are so unedicated and so unwilling to be educated that if you give equal weight to bad data, theyll assume its valid and never research it.