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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40351: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:07:38 PM

De Marquis: The problem is that cutting out the bush tax cuts isn't enough which is why middle class rates and social programs are taking a hit. I advocate going beyond the removal of tax cuts and implementing even higher rates along with halving the military budget. Even that probably won't be enough but it will at least lower the burden place on the middle class and poor.

[up]Go further down the page.

edited 14th Nov '12 6:08:36 PM by Kostya

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40352: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:10:26 PM

Stay away from the social programs. Attacking the defense budget is more than enough.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#40353: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:11:29 PM

So how much money do we need to fix Social Security?

[up]

Enough for what?

edited 14th Nov '12 6:12:04 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40354: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:15:25 PM

@Serocco: its also a political nonstarter. The republicans (and their voters) would decry it as an evil attempt to disarm america/destroy our military.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40355: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:17:41 PM

The problem isnt the defense budget, at least not the official one. From that page linked to before: "The recent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were largely funded through supplementary spending bills outside the Federal Budget, so they are not included in the military budget figures listed below.[6] Starting in the fiscal year 2010 budget however, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are categorized as "Overseas Contingency Operations" and included in the budget.

By the end of 2008, the U.S. had spent approximately $900 billion in direct costs on the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. Indirect costs such as interest on the additional debt and incremental costs of caring for the more than 33,000 wounded borne by the Veterans Administration are additional. Some experts estimate these indirect costs will eventually exceed the direct costs.[7] As of June 2011, the total cost of the wars in Iraq and Afganistan is approximately $3.7 trillion so far.[8]"

And the real problem is that the costs of those wars wont end just because we bring the troops home. You could halve the defense budget and still not solve the problem.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40356: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:19:11 PM

Deviant: Do you mean to make it solvent? Well in a few decades it will face a 17 trillion budget shortfall.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#40357: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:23:32 PM

What would really help is if the Federal Government would stop using Social Security as a free piggy bank to fund shit. >_>

I wonder if there's a Hitler Exemption Act for Time Travel concerning Dubya.

edited 14th Nov '12 6:24:52 PM by PotatoesRock

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40358: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:25:05 PM

That's why, after the deficit and economy aren't problems anymore, I'd like to take the money that we should cut from the military budget and put it into the Social Security fund. Just think of it as war reparations.wink

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40359: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:27:41 PM

@Marquis: That's a major problem, but our defense budget is bloated even without that and should be cut down a ton.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40360: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:28:34 PM

That's tougher than it sounds. Vet benefits are going to be huge.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40361: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:30:12 PM

Vet benefits shouldn't be cut. Everything else should be majorly downsized.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40362: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:34:04 PM

[up]Not everything. I'm sure there are some things that are vital and need to remain as is. However most probably can be cut in some fashion.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#40363: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:35:59 PM

Interest on debt incurred in past wars seems to make up a lot of Defense Spending ($109.1–$431.5 billion) how do we cut that?

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#40364: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:36:41 PM

For example, the coast guard is important. They tend to do a lot in local waters to help boaters who run into trouble. That said, there's a lot of bloat in the military budget that the military doesn't even want.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40365: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:37:01 PM

No more defense contractors, please.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40366: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:37:20 PM

Can you specify where, exactly? What responsibilities or missions would you cut?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40367: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:39:38 PM

Firstly, cut the corporate jets. The pilots actually pass out because of how under-developed those things are.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40368: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:40:40 PM

De Marquis: To be honest I'm not sure but I know several military guys in high positions have said they can manage fine with cuts to the budget. What would I personally close? Well for starters I think we should close several of our bases overseas. Do we really need to be in some of these places anymore? Ending the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are also important but that's being done already.

edit: I'm thinking some of the bigger money sinks in the R&D area can do with a cut too. We don't need all these expensive toys since we're not going to go to war anytime soon (at least we shouldn't) and we're not at risk of invasion.

The FBI, NASA, Veterans Affairs/Pensions, Energy Department, and Homeland Security should stay as is though. Fortunately they only make up about 200 billion if that so there's plenty of other stuff to cut.

edited 14th Nov '12 6:54:47 PM by Kostya

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40370: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:48:41 PM

@Serocco: I'm not sure what corporate jets you're referring to.

@Kostya: While that sounds somewhat reasonable, the problem is you're cutting a percentage of a percentage of the federal budget, and that wont be enough to cover the deficit if the GAO and CBO forecasts are accurate. Without politically unrealistic tax increases (of a magnitude that in fact they might really impact economic growth) there isnt any other option except cut some entitlement spending.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40371: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:54:22 PM

I am aware of that. This is why I'd like some hard numbers on what the Bush Tax Cuts expiring would cause in revenue but I can't seem to find any. Personally I think the deficit is something that is just going to have to remain for now. That doesn't mean we can't work on lowering it though.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#40372: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:59:55 PM

@Kostya

Half the operating costs not associated with Iraq or Afghanistan would pretty much neuter us in a bad way.

My opinion is getting out of Iraq and Afghan completely, as well as closing a few of our redundant overseas bases (I.E. the ones that provide force projection in areas that other bases provide superior force protection to) Pretty much similar to what Kostya said there.

Now, you've lost my vote if you so much as look at our healthcare, college, or pensions the wrong way.

Past that though? Contractors need to go. We need to do a nickel and dime audit of what is necessary. We don't need contractors to provide "janitorial services", that's what low ranking enlisted are fucking for! We don't need contractors cooking our chow, we have cooks. We don't need electricians, or construction companies, we have engineers. If Iraq and Afghanistan were closed up, as well as some of our tertiary bases, we would have the personnel to man all those things with troops already on the payroll. The reason for this massive contractor bloat since 9/11 is that the deployment tempo has been so high and so extensive that we just haven't had the military manpower in uniform to successfully complete our overseas deployed missions and our home station ones. We have the ability to go back to self-sufficiency, and honestly, I want it. I'm tired of fucking civil servants who are often just assholes filling a seat, or contractors doing the same jobs soldiers do, but getting paid 3x as much. Fuck. That.

There's lots of fat to trim, what I'm afraid of(and am already seeing in the Air Force) is trimming the people in uniform, and not the civilians. The Air Force is using standards to do their "force shaping". By making the PT test harder, making the rifle qual very difficult for non combat arms troops, and just in-general looking for any excuse to kick people out.

Keep going like this and we might as well fucking privatize the military altogether, since soldiers are losing their job security as the war winds down.

The other thing I hate is that when you start pushing out troops and not the civilians, you're often putting veterans on the street in this climate. The Government loves to talk the big talk about how they love us for our service and how they support us, but firing us is not support. They best put their money where their mouth is and start firing the people who never swore an oath.

edited 14th Nov '12 7:01:40 PM by Barkey

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40373: Nov 14th 2012 at 7:04:18 PM

I had no idea about that contractor shit. Yeah, that needs to go. Do you know of a place I can go to find out how much that's costing us?

edited 14th Nov '12 7:04:30 PM by Kostya

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#40374: Nov 14th 2012 at 7:04:45 PM

Thread Hopping.

Hey guys I've just found out about this secession thing.

Surely they can't be serious?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40375: Nov 14th 2012 at 7:07:04 PM

Eh don't think about it too much. There's less than a half a percent, even in Texas. It's also not backed by any legislators so it's not even under review or anything. Just let them have their tantrum in peace.


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