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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40326: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:30:31 PM

The argument is "Well, life expectancy has increased-" but the reality is life expectancy has remained static for lower income Americans.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40327: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:32:46 PM

A lot of Democrats are confused by that statement, esp. since the Obama team really didnt no anything to clear up the confusion afterward. My take is that Obama is keeping his options open, in case he needs bargaining chips in the negotiations. Look for an increase in the retirement age, an adjustment of benefits, or both.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#40328: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:33:04 PM

[up][up]

What about the Middle Class?

edited 14th Nov '12 5:33:26 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40329: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:35:43 PM

Increasing the retirement age, if you want to get very basic, is a bureaucratic way of saying "Get back to work, your arthritis has-been! No, I don't care if you're too old or too sick!"

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40330: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:37:03 PM

So, why aren't we just gunning for raising taxes on the rich again??

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40331: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:38:07 PM

[up]

because despite even studies they funded themselves saying tax breaks on the rich do shit-all for revenue, republicans would rather stonewall than allow taxes to go up on the rich.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40332: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:38:34 PM

Of course, Social Security is relatively easy to fix. Ending the payroll tax cap which exempts every dollar made over $106,800 from payroll taxes would do it (which would not technically be "raising rates").

edited 14th Nov '12 5:39:19 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40333: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:39:14 PM

Because the Republicans don't want to.

The issue is that they don't even have to do this though. The fiscal cliff will raise their rates anyway. Just pass a bill that lowers the middle class tax rate so the net effect of the cliff will be negative (let's see the GOP try and vote against a middle class tax cut) and fall off. Social programs are a problem but we'll cross that bridge afterwards. First we need to make the GOP realize they're serious now.

edited 14th Nov '12 5:39:55 PM by Kostya

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40334: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:40:19 PM

Let's be real here. Obama's rich. Goldman Sachs is rich. Obama gets campaign contributions from Goldman Sachs.

Goldman Sachs doesn't want to pay more in taxes. Obama, presumably, doesn't want to pay more in taxes. That's why.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40335: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:41:36 PM

Wait, I'm confused, why are social programs a problem?

Also, is a guy making over a million a year gonna care about a 5% tax increase? Shit, I'm not rich, and I'd be willing to kick in 1%

[up] Thoughts?

edited 14th Nov '12 5:42:10 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40336: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:42:57 PM

Well, to be fair, he is in favor of letting the Bush era tax cuts expire, which would presumably cost him personally in extra taxes.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40337: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:44:39 PM

Starship: Social programs are getting cut too to make the budget balanced. We need to deal with that too but let's focus on keeping the middle class from getting squeezed first.

Logically it shouldn't but what do I know. Apparently a 10% tax rate isn't enough. Honestly I'd like to see a rise of 20% or so for most making several million but I'll take what I can get.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#40338: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:46:14 PM

Considering that he was for the Buffet rule, I don't think Obama personally is against raising taxes on himself. That and he's been recorded saying that he wants to raise taxes on incomes over $250k. And he's from a working class background himself, so he knows how much raising taxes can help the lower classes.

Seriously, he isn't even that rich now, he's only making a lot because he managed to land the presidency. He's no trustfund baby or corporate manager kind of rich.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40339: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:46:28 PM

@Kostya: But....you're gonna cut 'social programs'.....in a recession??

It was an honor
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40340: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:52:20 PM

[up][up] 2012 Financial disclosure forms calculate that Obama's net worth is between $2,801,012 and $11,830,000. His annual salary is $400,000. He also has access to "a $150,000 expense account, as well as a $100,000 tax free travel account and $20,000 entertainment budget". I'd say that's pretty rich.

The social programs are off the table as far as I'm concerned. If you wanna cut something during a recession, cut the defense industry.

edited 14th Nov '12 5:54:58 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40341: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:54:48 PM

[up][up]I don't want to. That's mostly the GOP and maybe Obama but I'm not sure if he's doing that because it's what he feels or if he's just trying to compromise.

[up]...and? What does it matter if he's rich? That doesn't automatically mean he opposes tax raises for himself. The Buffet rule has it's name for a reason.

edit: Good luck getting military cuts past the GOP.

edited 14th Nov '12 5:56:02 PM by Kostya

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40342: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:55:30 PM

@Starship: Yes, during a recession, which according to Keynesian economics is not a good idea. However, the problem is that according to government projections the federal debt is expected to balloon over the next several decades, and fiscal conservatives are pushing very hard to do something about it.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40343: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:55:54 PM

I'd say it's what he feels. He's surrounded by assholes that wanna slash the social programs, after all. They probably rubbed off him.

[up][up] Buffet Rule was watered down to the bone before it was thrown away by the GOP.

edited 14th Nov '12 5:56:26 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40344: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:56:52 PM

[up][up]The deficit which is caused almost entirely by ridiculously low rates and an asinine military budget.

[up]Doesn't matter. Obama still supported it. He doesn't deserve any blame for what they did.

edited 14th Nov '12 5:57:37 PM by Kostya

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#40345: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:57:15 PM

@Kostya: But....you're gonna cut 'social programs'.....in a recession??
Something about Republican Talking Heads, Leaders and Donors being horrified about the lower classes demanding a welfare society and the draining the resources of the rich ("The Makers"), and never wanting to work and mooch all day. ("The Takers"). Also something about us becoming Greece/Europe and something about hyper-inflation.

Basically Republicans in office think Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security encourage laziness.

Family members I have who are on the three would much prefer to be working, but, major illness is a thing.

Buffet Rule was watered down to the bone before it was thrown away by the GOP.
Something's better than nothing is the thought process. Again, Obama's trying to make the government function. Unfortunately to do so, it means making absurd compromises. About the only other thing he could do is effectively declare Martial Law and throw the Republicans in prison. Which is ha ha, no.

edited 14th Nov '12 5:59:37 PM by PotatoesRock

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40346: Nov 14th 2012 at 5:59:43 PM

Let's see how eager the Republicans remain at cutting the social programs once they're living through 'em.

Oh, yeah, we already know - we get guys like Paul Ryan, who want to burn the bridge.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40347: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:00:28 PM

"The deficit which is caused almost entirely by ridiculously low rates and an asinine military budget."

Specifically the Bush era tax cuts and the invasion of Iraq, yes. Still, the deficit is there, and in fact we do have to do something about it.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#40348: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:02:27 PM

Forget the deficit. I don't care about the deficit. It'll always exist. Always. Especially with the bloated defense budget, which will never get cut.

Focus less on the deficit and more on removing money's influence in politics, because that's how we can fix things around here.

edited 14th Nov '12 6:03:27 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40349: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:04:40 PM

We could always just, like, slash the defense budget in half, and we would still have the largest military budget in the world.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#40350: Nov 14th 2012 at 6:06:45 PM

Anyone know how much of the Defense budget is going to general payroll and maintenance?


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