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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40276: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:23:36 AM

[up]

generally, it mostly has to do with finding a common enemy in Progressives.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#40277: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:27:34 AM

That's the thing, though; in the 1960s, the religious vote was on the economic left, not the right. What the hell happened to the religious progressives?

edited 14th Nov '12 8:43:15 AM by Ramidel

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#40278: Nov 14th 2012 at 9:08:16 AM

Religious progressives still exist in high numbers,the Conservative side simply started touting up socially conservative values that the religious could agree with. Eventually the social issues became more important than economic to them.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40280: Nov 14th 2012 at 9:14:52 AM

[up][up]

This. A lot of it is convincing religious people that theres an insidious war against christian values.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#40281: Nov 14th 2012 at 9:34:54 AM

@Tomu: To a degree, but LBJ was probably the last President to hold to the old Progressive ethos; rural Protestants convinced that God was on their side and it was the government's duty to make America a better country.

Back then, progressivism and liberalism were not really on speaking terms.

edited 14th Nov '12 9:35:45 AM by Ramidel

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40282: Nov 14th 2012 at 9:56:49 AM

In other words, it all went wrong with the Assassination of John F Kennedy?

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40283: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:03:22 AM

I was just browsing the top articles on TPM, and I think I see one of the problems with our modern political discourse. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't give you the right to wish death upon them or be as nasty as commenters are on some of those articles. TPM is a liberal-leaning news organization but I see just as much hate spewed from the left to the right as I do in the other direction on more conservative sites.

You don't trap flies with vinegar, folks.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40284: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:05:28 AM

[up] Sure you do. tongue

But yeah, I kind of agree. I think part of the problem here is that politics in general has become so polarized that any sort of bipartisanship leads to people crying about the "cult of centrism".

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40285: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:15:07 AM

...but is that any better than the other extreme; where, on all the major issues, all the Major Parties (more-or-less) agree on Policy?

Keep Rolling On
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#40286: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:16:15 AM

I think having major parties agree on things is not bad if it's representative of the views of the general public. It only gets to be an issue if the public at large feels that they don't have a voice in the system.

Contrastingly, having parties that are too different very definitely leads to obstructionism that just makes everything worse for everybody.

edited 14th Nov '12 10:16:59 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#40287: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:31:46 AM

[up]

a lot of times, at least with my irl conservative friends, I think the issue is simple. We both agree on the easy stuff (people having a right to be happy, free, do what they want with their life, etc)

But our basis for our moral codes and ethics and what we personally see as good vs bad are so diametrically opposite that when they tell me "Thats socialist" all I can say is "yeah, isnt it great?" and all I can say about their ideals is "those ideals only work in a perfect free market and or christian world" and their response is similarly "yes, and?"

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#40288: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:38:39 AM

Ideally we'd have two parties that are very different, so that people would have distinct choices, but ones that could compromise and find common ground when necessary.

And while I think the "Cult of Centrism" is a term that's often overused, it is a legitimate term nonetheless. There are real, serious consequences to treating ideas as though they have equal merit when they clearly don't. Just look at the whole intelligent design vs. evolution "debate" and the effect it's had on public schools.

edited 14th Nov '12 10:39:27 AM by HilarityEnsues

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40289: Nov 14th 2012 at 10:55:11 AM

[up] Yeah, but that's just regular old false equivalency. It has nothing at all to do with centrism.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40290: Nov 14th 2012 at 11:15:56 AM

<Head desk>

This is why I say we should retire the term Cult of Centrism. I've explained what it means a KERBILLION times, but people still don't seem to get it. Yes, it does have to do with centrism-specifically, centrists for hire. That is, people who have a financial reason to be centrist, not because centrism is correct, but because centrism is the middle point between the parties, and there's a media obligation to fill that niche.

But it's not called the Cult of Moderation.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40291: Nov 14th 2012 at 11:26:43 AM

Here is a reasonably good explanation of the different positions on taxes. Bear in mind that typical Forbes readers probably read the Obama summary as a bad thing.

Reading the Krugman article Fighteer linked to earlier, I read this:

"...It’s worth pointing out that the fiscal cliff isn’t really a cliff. It’s not like the debt-ceiling confrontation, where terrible things might well have happened right away if the deadline had been missed. This time, nothing very bad will happen to the economy if agreement isn’t reached until a few weeks or even a few months into 2013. So there’s time to bargain..."

I think this practically guarantees that there will be no deal before May.

edited 14th Nov '12 11:28:04 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#40292: Nov 14th 2012 at 11:30:40 AM

[up]How so? Krugman, for all his intelligence, doesn't actually predict what political moves Congress and the President make. He doesn't do a lot of prediction actually, just suggests what he thinks would be a good idea.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40293: Nov 14th 2012 at 11:32:05 AM

Because they (Congress) will want to play chicken again.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#40294: Nov 14th 2012 at 12:00:05 PM

Eh, so that wasn't the best example. I blame the fact that the term has been thrown around so much to describe things that have nothing to do with the media.

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#40295: Nov 14th 2012 at 12:06:02 PM

The thing here, is that even when it's used to describe the media, it's still just describing false equivalency. It has nothing at all to do with being centrist politically.

It's a terrible term because it describes something entirely different from what it's supposed to describe.

edited 14th Nov '12 12:06:24 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40296: Nov 14th 2012 at 1:08:08 PM

You know it really bothers me that Romney got blindsided like this. How stupid do you have to be to not even entertain the notion that you might actually lose?

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#40297: Nov 14th 2012 at 1:24:30 PM

[up]Unsure if I've found the right article, as that link gives a glorious 404. sad Is the title Why Romney Never Saw It Coming?

[down]OK — got it! <reads>

edited 14th Nov '12 1:26:14 PM by Euodiachloris

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40298: Nov 14th 2012 at 1:25:46 PM

Remove the gap and the - after the word how. It seems to have broken up because it was too big.

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#40300: Nov 14th 2012 at 1:35:30 PM

I'll tell you why Romney was so optimistic. Because he had a big war chest and assumed you can buy the White House off eBay, like anything else.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

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