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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40151: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:03:04 PM

Currently? No. It would need to hire a ton of people, ideally from the insurance companies themselves. There would be a transition period that the GOP would do their best to sabotage, just to prove their point that it wouldn't work.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#40152: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:05:32 PM

On a similar note to Fighteer's:

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/11/13/1180251/five-ways-the-religious-right-imploded-in-2012/ Think Progress, of what I can tell, notes that a generational shift is beginning to break-up the lock-step power of the Religious Right voting bloc that the Republicans had since the Reagan Revolution.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#40153: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:10:37 PM

[up][up]Part of me really, really wishes I didn't understand why they'd do that. But, I oh, so do. sad

When you get so caught up in sides you forget there's a baby in the bathwater... you've got a problem. tongue

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40154: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:11:50 PM

You know, I've been one of the most outspoken critics of the Cult of Centrism, but increasingly I think that we should abandon that term. While it is perfectly on the nose, here's the facts: people like Barkey hear it and rather than thinking "Oh, they're talking about those that subscribe exclusively to the Golden Mean Fallacy" they think "This is liberals being raging liberals!"

Cult of Centrism may be catchy, but I'm not sure it serves the goals it was written to.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40155: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:13:03 PM

Wait back up a minute. According to that article Obama won the popular vote among Catholics. Really? How? That is incredibly shocking given what most Catholics (which is like 75% of the population in my area) think of him.

edited 13th Nov '12 2:13:17 PM by Kostya

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40156: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:13:52 PM

Of course, there is already Government-operated Healthcare in the US: Military Hospitals. Maybe they could use some people from there, or let them admit civilian patients?*

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40157: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:16:47 PM

@Greenmantle: The VA is a huge success story, as is Medicare. So you are correct, and I forgot that we already have models on which to base such a system.

@Kostya: It's not Catholics driving the Religious Right. It's mainly Protestants and Baptists and other evangelical groups.

[down] That little bit of Insane Troll Logic never ceases to amuse me. It's also true that the military is very conservative (in the original sense of the term) and has an insanely high testosterone quotient, plus a lot of its enlistees come from ... you guessed it, Southern White backgrounds.

edited 13th Nov '12 2:19:26 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40158: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:17:29 PM

That raises an interesting point. The military is actual the most socialist institution in the country when you get down to it. However since socialism is bad and the military is good the military can't be socialist.

[up]I know that but I expected Romney would win more of them than Obama based solely on the pro-life and anti-gay marriage stances they tend to take.

edited 13th Nov '12 2:18:54 PM by Kostya

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#40159: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:21:58 PM

The Catholic Church is more pro-life and anti-marriage equality than most American Catholics.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40160: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:22:34 PM

Well then my area must be bizarre.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40161: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:23:02 PM

But there are a lot of Catholics among minority groups: blacks and Hispanics in particular. Their tendency to vote Democrat regardless of religious affiliation is what's swinging that pendulum, I'll bet.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40162: Nov 13th 2012 at 2:25:35 PM

Good point. Most of the Catholics I know personally are white but there's a city near us that's predominantly black so I'm guessing that's what's going on where I live.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#40163: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:13:41 PM

Frankly, this obsession with marital fidelity in our public officials is stupid. It ought to be a private matter between the people involved, and only an issue of public scrutiny when it affects the judgement and/or performance of the official in his job. Otherwise it's a case of us holding our public officials to a standard that we don't hold ourselves — don't something like half of marriages experience infidelity at some point?

I'm with you on this one Fighteer. I'm still seething that Eliot Spitzer, by most accounts a good man dedicated to giving NY State politics a much-needed cleaning got canned because he likes hookers.

Um, hookers ain't the reason NY State is second to Illinois in being the Ur-Example of Fifthy Politics.

It was an honor
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#40164: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:17:55 PM

Rick Perry and RedState founder Erick Erickson are calling would-be secessionists to stand down.

edited 13th Nov '12 3:18:41 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40165: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:20:22 PM

Was wondering when they were gonna tell the craziers of the crazies enough is enough.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40166: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:21:18 PM

But will they?

Keep Rolling On
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40167: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:22:04 PM

"We here at Red State are American citizens. We have no plans to secede from the union," he wrote on the site Tuesday. "If you do, good luck with that, but this is not the place for you."

Okay, that's hilarious.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40168: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:22:48 PM

Doesn't this violate what Rick Perry said earlier?

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#40169: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:48:11 PM

[up][up]What shocked me was that he actually admitted Obama won fair and square.

Trump delenda est
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#40170: Nov 13th 2012 at 3:54:03 PM

I'm seeing a strange trend where many typical Republicans are starting to concede and reconsider, whereas some libertarians are being awfully hostile to Democrats. Why is that?

Also, is it me or are independents having better chance of winning than third parties?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40171: Nov 13th 2012 at 4:01:55 PM

I guess it comes down to perceptions. Claiming to be an "independent" is a cheap way to raise yourself above party politics, which appeals to the Cult of Centrism (sorry for overusing it, but it's a valid critique). Third parties, on the other hand, are wacky fringe groups that nobody respects. Nobody said politics had to be logical.

As for the demagoguery, it does seem that the "career politician" types are admitting defeat, or at least conceding the victory. It's the folks at the far end of the spectrum — libertarians and Tea Party style obstructionists — who are vowing to press the party even farther right, more or less as predicted. This could still end up with a full on break between the establishment and radical right.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#40172: Nov 13th 2012 at 4:05:05 PM

^^

Libertarians tend to favor bigger government. Libertarians don't like nanny-ism.

Also, Democrats are pro gun control, where as being anti gun control is an extremely important and key Libertarian issue. What Libertarians ideally want is as little of a government footprint as possible when it comes to civil rights and freedoms. They tend to be in the "Why not? Doesn't affect me.." category where abortion and gay marriage are concerned, where as they also tend to be pro drug legalization, pro prostitution legalization, and against tighter gun control.

Facts are facts, Barkey. I know Republicans are institutionally allergic to math (for reference, watch Fox News), but unfortunately it agrees with me on this point.

What I'm trying to get across is that what's murdering the Republicans is the alienation of independent or moderate voters as the slide down the scale further into extremism, and that it won't do the Democrats any favors to do the same. While I do agree with you in the fact that Democrats need to sack up and stick to their guns, you often make it seem like the Dems aren't liberal enough, as opposed to just seriously lacking conviction.

Claiming to be an "independent" is a cheap way to raise yourself above party politics

What do you call people who split right down the middle compared to the two parties then? You know, folks like me who are pro-choice, pro gay rights, but also pro-gun and against allowing illegal immigration to run unchecked?

edited 13th Nov '12 4:07:40 PM by Barkey

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#40173: Nov 13th 2012 at 4:10:53 PM

This is why I remain cynical of the idea that the GOP could ever fall and allow for the Dems to fall to the right and Greens take the left.

From 1980-2008,we had nothing but Neo-Cons taking up the GOP beating out the Rockefeller's with the disgrace of Nixon and unpopularity of Ford. And for a while that was the way of that party.

Then Iraq started raising the debt too high,and the recession struck,which pretty much ended any good,serious Neo-Con's chance of winning. There was disarray for a little while,but the Tea Party quickly took over that part.

Now the Tea Party is causing turbulence,forcing Repubs to rethink just like 2008 when Neo-Cons brought disaster or 1980 when the Rockefeller style fell out.

So you say the libertarians are angered? That means if not checked,they will probably be the new face of the GOP.

The GOP isn't falling,it's transitioning and will keep doing that as long as it is unified against "socialism".There's just enough unity to stop a Whig-style fallout.

edited 13th Nov '12 4:13:02 PM by terlwyth

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40174: Nov 13th 2012 at 4:15:55 PM

Barkey: I don't think that's true. Something like 90+% of the country is a partisan in some fashion or another. What's more likely the case is that the Republicans just can't keep up the turnout. It's not independents, it's moderate Republicans.

And Dems aren't liberal enough, and I'm happy to go through it on a case by case basis, but I suspect what you think of as "liberal" isn't what liberal actually means.

edited 13th Nov '12 4:16:41 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#40175: Nov 13th 2012 at 4:19:01 PM

When I say Liberal, I'm applying it to the American standard for Liberal.

Anyhow, I was a Moderate Republican, but I've voted Obama two elections in a row.. So whatever that makes me.

Honestly, I'd say I'm a Libertarian. Unfortunately there isn't any opportunity to seriously vote that way.

edited 13th Nov '12 4:19:43 PM by Barkey


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