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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40076: Nov 13th 2012 at 5:07:02 AM

That does not appear to be true. CIA security teams responded promptly, there just wernt enough of them.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
#40077: Nov 13th 2012 at 5:56:13 AM

From what I understand, he (or his administration) is accused of being too quick to assume it was enraged Muslims rioting (even though it turned out to be an organized attack by Al Qaeda) and issuing apologetic statements, thus simultaneously insulting Muslims by assuming that they are prone to such flying off the handle and offending Americans who don't think we should apologize to terrorists.

I haven't really looked at the details to see how much of that is reasonable.

<><
MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#40078: Nov 13th 2012 at 5:58:08 AM

Thanks to this video, Petraeus's affair and resignation are now officially funny.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40079: Nov 13th 2012 at 6:49:29 AM

I don't like how Petraeus, the author of the Troop Escalation in Iraq (and all of the consequences thereof), only started getting in trouble because of an affair.

edited 13th Nov '12 6:53:15 AM by Sledgesaul

SimplyWhatever bla bla bla from bla bla bla Since: Sep, 2011
bla bla bla
#40080: Nov 13th 2012 at 6:55:34 AM

Here's an uh, interesting petition created to show that... internet petitions hardly mean anything. I think this was started in response to a people petitioning for states to secede (without actually asking their state government).

whatever
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40081: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:00:20 AM

Petraeus was a general doing his job: to fight and win a war. I don't blame him for the actions of the politicians who started the war. I respect and admire his efforts in winning said war given the constraints placed on him. Rarely are generals to blame for mismanaging a war.

Frankly, this obsession with marital fidelity in our public officials is stupid. It ought to be a private matter between the people involved, and only an issue of public scrutiny when it affects the judgement and/or performance of the official in his job. Otherwise it's a case of us holding our public officials to a standard that we don't hold ourselves — don't something like half of marriages experience infidelity at some point?

The reason Petraeus came under scrutiny was because there was a concern that, as DCI, he might have been involved in a compromise of national security. Otherwise, the fact that he was banging his biographer is tabloid fodder, not relevant to his job as a military commander.

From a personal standpoint, it's also very easy to see how it happens: an attractive young admirer gets placed into an intimate relationship with the person she's writing about, the man in question is a powerful figure with an ego to match, One Thing Led to Another... it's a story as old as people.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:07:45 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40082: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:05:44 AM

[up] We never won the Iraq War. We were kicked out because we wanted to stay further and the Iraqi government didn't want to deal with more political controversy.

Generals aren't to blame for mismanaging a war? They're the goddamned commanders of the armed forces. Their decisions, their instructions, under the orders of the defense contractors.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:10:16 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40083: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:08:46 AM

We won the war. Do you see Hussein and his government anywhere? What you're talking about was the occupation, with the goal of delivering a stable government to the country and repelling/coopting the insurgency. From the evidence available, it looks like that was pretty successful. Of course the goal was to leave, as soon as possible consistent with fulfilling the mission. We weren't seeking to make Iraq into our 51st (or 52nd — yay Puerto Rico) state.

You can argue up and down about whether we should have invaded Iraq in the first place. You can scream about the naivete of the Bush administration in thinking that the people of Iraq would welcome American liberators like Europe in World War Two. You can wax poetic about the incompetence of the "reconstruction" effort. Those are political considerations. Militarily, we did a pretty damn good job.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:11:06 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40084: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:12:25 AM

Do you honestly believe Iraq is safer right now? Look at what we caused. Look at what we destroyed. Go over to Iraq and take a good look at the scenery, read up on the survivors' soliloquies and then tell me if we did the right thing.

Which we didn't. Not militarily, not politically, not morally. Only financially, because that's all anyone cares about anymore, particularly the defense contractors. If you base "victory" on how much money earned, then yeah, we "won", but it mostly went in the pockets of the defense contractors, their lobbyists and the politicians.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:16:10 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40085: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:15:54 AM

Again, that's a political issue. Petraeus did the job he was assigned to do. That's why we have a military: to kill people and break stuff. Do not blame the people who fought the war for the war being fought in the first place. Blame the people who sent them there.

This is exactly like Vietnam, when people spit on our soldiers. It's not the soldiers' fault that the politicians sent them to fight a stupid war. Nor is it the generals' fault for being forced by political constraints to fight the war stupidly.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:16:59 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40086: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:16:59 AM

[up] Do you blame a shooter, the arms dealer or the arms producer for a murder?

The reality is that all deserve the blame.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:20:52 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40087: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:17:45 AM

No, they do not, Sledgesaul. You are dangerously naive if you think that way.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LMage Since: May, 2011
#40088: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:20:29 AM

Hilary Clinton resigns as Secretary Of State

I've heard she's also been dropping hints of running again in 2016.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40089: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:21:29 AM

[up][up] The shooter caused the murder. The dealer sold the weapon. The producer made that weapon.

The true naivety would be to blame the weapon for a murder.

[up] About time. Now we can see who Obama nominates for the position.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40090: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:22:21 AM

[up][up]We discussed that pages ago. You can be excused for not following it, though; the thread moves fast. She's repeatedly denied desiring to run in 2016, while leaving the door open in the way that any professional politician would. I don't blame her for being tired: 20 years of politics will wear anyone out.

[up] The military is the weapon of the country. They do what they are told consistent with the rules of war.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:24:22 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40091: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:23:12 AM

Biden's been in office for 36 years, and he's not stopping anytime soon.

LMage Since: May, 2011
#40092: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:25:16 AM

@Sledge

Biden's also not entirely human, I'm pretty sure. :P

But seriously, Hilary's not looking so good these days. I kind of hope she takes some time off and revitalizes herself then comes back to politics. I think she's a very positive force in Government and dose a lot of good.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40093: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:27:50 AM

[up][up][up] Weapons are machines designed for a purpose. So now the soldiers are machines?

[up] I disagree with the "good" Hillary caused. She voted for the war, after all. At least she's out of politics until further notice, but I doubt her successor will be any better.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:29:08 AM by Sledgesaul

LMage Since: May, 2011
#40094: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:29:33 AM

@Sledge

So did a lot of Democrats, that was just the place where public opinion was at the time. After 9/11 one of my teachers nearly got fired because she wasn't requiring all her kids to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40095: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:31:30 AM

The pledge of allegiance is a fancy speech conjured up by some random Christian named Francis Bellamy. I don't care if it's to show patriotism - if you chose not to sing it, you should not get in trouble for singing it.

When a Republican voted "Yes" on a war, they're bombarded by the critics, but when a Democrat voted "Yes" on that same way, everyone tries to excuse it by invoking Fair for Its Day.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:33:25 AM by Sledgesaul

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#40096: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:33:34 AM

[up] Also, wasn't he explicitly a socialist? Would be pretty funny to see the reaction of the average Republican once they find that out.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40097: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:36:02 AM

[up] Yeah, Bellamy was a Christian Socialist. Also a Baptist. He "championed the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources", which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus.

Bellamy viewed his Pledge as an 'inoculation' that would protect immigrants and "insufficiently patriotic" native-born Americans from the 'virus' of radicalism and subversion.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:47:25 AM by Sledgesaul

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40098: Nov 13th 2012 at 7:48:06 AM

Forget the "Fiscal Cliff". Beware the Grand Bargain. Credit to Cenk Uygur and the Huffington Post for the article. Details of the Grand Bargain will come in a later post.

edited 13th Nov '12 8:45:29 AM by Sledgesaul

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#40099: Nov 13th 2012 at 8:35:54 AM

A little note: Generals, indeed all Soldiers, follow the orders of their Political Masters, whatever they personally think: after all, they are Soldiers, it is their calling. It is not their place to go against what the Politicians want, even if it costs more lives.

edited 13th Nov '12 8:37:09 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#40100: Nov 13th 2012 at 8:44:29 AM

[up] They are independent-thinking individuals. They can choose to stop following orders. They chose not to because they value their lives, their careers, over others.


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