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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#39976: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:44:46 PM

So tell me how exactly are you going to run everyone in government out of town?

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#39977: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:46:44 PM

Serocco, you shouldn't just list out only the bad points of a nominee - and by extension the nominator - without considering the overall picture.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#39978: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:47:09 PM

[up][up] The only other way possible - abolishing donations to elections, period. Repealing Buckley v. Valeo, a law that declared money equals speech. Repealing Citizens United, a law that declared corporations have the same rights as citizens because money equals speech.

Everything and anything possible to reduce the influence of money in politics. Then voting them out of office.

[up] The bigger picture is that money rules politics. Reducing that influence can go a long way to changing the culture of Washington.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:47:58 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39979: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:47:44 PM

9/11 and nuclear weapons were ridiculous reasons? Again, you seem to not understand how this would make the Democrats look to the common people. None of them would ever get reelected if they told people to forget about their dead loved ones and the bombs, we're going to ignore them.

Before you say anything yes I know the weapons aren't real but it's not like we knew that at the time.

[up]And how do you intend to destroy these things without voting them out of office?

edited 12th Nov '12 5:48:27 PM by Kostya

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#39980: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:47:55 PM

I hope Petraeus gets a Secretary job anyway, but then, I suppose you're only allowed to have affairs if you're the sitting President like Bill Clinton.

(Just to be clear, I don't approve of people having affairs, but I don't believe that sex scandals really relate to whether someone can do their damn job or not.)

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#39981: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:48:38 PM

For once, I'm with Serocco. SOPA is a dealbreaker.

[up] The best argument I've heard suggests that in the CIA, an affair means you're subject to blackmail, and exposing yourself to blackmail is a firable offense.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:49:12 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Colonial1.1 Purveyor of Obscurity from The Marvelous River City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Purveyor of Obscurity
#39982: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:49:12 PM

—scratches head—

You two are starting to sound a little hysterical. Might I remind you that the president likely wouldn't approve a policy whose consideration stage provoked large national (and international) outcry?

"He could not know it. For it was not all a joke."
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#39983: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:49:47 PM

It's not about SOPA itself, it's about how a person's record is a reflection of their personal policy positions, and you judge people on the basis thereof.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#39984: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:49:58 PM

@Kostaya: Because A: you can have arguments with someone you mostly agree with, and B: the secretary of state, to my understanding, has to act independently of the President some of the time, so one should expect them to mostly agree with the president on key issues.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#39985: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:49:59 PM

I suppose everyone that voted against SOPA - including Ron Paul and Paul Ryan - is a saint?

Look, I don't want Berman as the next secretary of state either, but we should not jump to far-fetched conclusions this fast.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39986: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:50:28 PM

Let me be clear, I don't want him in either. That's why I signed the petition thing. That doesn't mean I'm freaking out and declaring Obama a traitorous monster for considering, not choosing, considering, its architect. Nowhere does it indicate he is his first choice and nowhere does it indicate he is choosing him for this reason.

[down][down]Thank you. It's like the Red Scare. Yes it was bad but at the time it seemed an entirely valid fear.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:51:54 PM by Kostya

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#39987: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:50:44 PM

Obviously, voting against SOPA is a point in their favor.

I wouldn't want Ron Paul to be secretary of state either, though.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39988: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:51:05 PM

In fairness back in 2002/2003/2004 the reasons for the War in Iraq didn't seem so silly; a lot of people believed Colin Powell.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:51:36 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#39989: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:54:44 PM

I would prefer Jon Huntsman as Secretary of State. He was the Ambassador to China, after all, so he has the most credible experience on it.

[up] Powell was, ultimately, lying, though. I think he was following Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz's instructions, the two guys that engineered the idea that Iraq had nukes in the first place.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:57:02 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#39990: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:55:23 PM

How can we change the status quo, when those working within the status quo do not want to change the status quo?
Occupy. Protests. Petitions like this that might probably pressure the president to drop Berman in favour of something sane. Actions like Wikipedia's that almost certainly force the president to realize Internet restriction is political suicide. Getting Green members into state legislatures, governorships, and Congress*.

(*I was so fricking disappointed at the American Greens and how few candidates they ran at the lower levels nationwide. Your Canadian cousins have figured out how to win ridings. They don't deserve a vote until they figure out how to make a difference at the lower levels, imho.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39991: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:55:29 PM

Who are Obama's other choices? I haven't really heard much on that front.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#39992: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:56:38 PM

Huntsman would be a good choice. Also a smart choice, as it would kill Huntsman's cred with the Republican base and prevent a potential threat to Obama's Democratic successor in 2016. I wonder if he can nominate George P. Bush or Marco Rubio for something...

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39993: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:57:15 PM

[up][up]

If I recall, the most likely (or at least most talked about) possible replacements for Hillary are Jon Kerry, Susan Rice, Tom Donilon, and Jon Huntsman.

David Petraeus was also a candidate, but in light of recent events its not likely.

I think Tom Donilon is gonna get it. He has the least amount of baggage.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:57:47 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39994: Nov 12th 2012 at 5:58:22 PM

I don't consider it cause for alarm because, oh hey, we're already pulling out of Iraq and the like, with no indications whatsoever that this is going to be a thing that Obama is stopping. Somehow I doubt a new Secretary of State can just automatically reverse agreements already put into action.

At this point it's just a waiting game to pull out of the Middle East.

This alarmist reaction you two take verges dangerously on conspiracy theory, and as a rule I don't take those seriously at all. Sign the petition because you don't like this guy, fine. Don't assume it's some neon sign about Obama's desired policy when it's not. There's other guys on the list too, what about their records?

[up][up]I don't think Huntsman would take it probably for those reasons. And he doesn't seem to be on the list mentioned on the previous page.

edited 12th Nov '12 5:59:19 PM by AceofSpades

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#39997: Nov 12th 2012 at 6:03:30 PM

[up][up][up] Obama only left Iraq because the Iraqi government had to kick us out. We were actually planning on staying even longer before then.

On the issue of the State Secretary, I'm not saying Obama will pick Berman. I'm just flashing warning signs in case Obama picks Berman.

edited 12th Nov '12 6:04:47 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#39998: Nov 12th 2012 at 6:03:42 PM

Reading DP's posts recently, I'm not seeing that much from him on this issue.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#39999: Nov 12th 2012 at 6:04:24 PM

You two are starting to sound a little hysterical. Might I remind you that the president likely wouldn't approve a policy whose consideration stage provoked large national (and international) outcry?

You mean the same president who followed up SOPA failing by immediately organizing the torrent spying cabal so they wouldn't need it? Yeah, I can easily see him signing something under the radar the moment it's quiet enough to not be toxic.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#40000: Nov 12th 2012 at 6:06:48 PM

Alarmist? I'm just saying, this sort of thing does help shed light on Obama's position.


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