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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39801: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:21:25 PM

[up][up][up]

The popular Vote means nothing. Especially in the House Election.

BTW Six House races are still on going.

[up]

I miss the days when politicians in CA would gerrymander to there heart's content.

EDIT: Here's a spot of news we over looked.

Apparently on November 6, Local volunteers with the tea party-linked organization True the Vote were rejected as poll watchers by Franklin county officials in Ohio amid questions about how the volunteers applied to monitor the polls.

Ohio law permits groups of at least five candidates to assign poll observers, but candidates backing the group withdrew their support when charges surfaced Monday that candidate names had been falsified or copied on forms requesting observer status, according to the Columbus Dispatch.

edited 11th Nov '12 5:32:11 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39802: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:32:44 PM

I'm saying the popular vote should mean something. Maybe they can give the number of house seats to each party based on what percentage of the vote that party got.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39803: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:38:19 PM

[up]

Would never work. A House election depends on the individual choices of districts. Making it a national percentage thing would not only make the entire affair incredibly complicated, but would also massively decrease the representation State's receive in government affairs.

The Nation elects the President

The States elect their Senators

The Districts elect their Representatives

edited 11th Nov '12 5:48:19 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39804: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:52:11 PM

I'm saying you use a state popular vote total and divy up the seats based on what percentage each party gets. The national has nothing to do with it.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39805: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:52:38 PM

It could be by percentage in that particular state. Needs more refinement as an idea, though.

Butterfinger Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#39806: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:54:06 PM

Wait, was the total number of votes for Democratic representatives larger than the total for Republican representatives?

♥ ♦ ♠ ♣
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39807: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:54:36 PM

Of course. I'm primarily thinking up a fairer system right now. Refinements to make it workable can come later.

[up]In a few states it was. My home of PA is one.

edited 11th Nov '12 5:55:27 PM by Kostya

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39808: Nov 11th 2012 at 5:54:50 PM

[up][up]

Yep.

But lolgerrymanders

edited 11th Nov '12 5:55:00 PM by Midgetsnowman

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39809: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:02:24 PM

I'm saying you use a state popular vote total and divy up the seats based on what percentage each party gets. The national has nothing to do with it.

That would kinda defeat the entire purpose of the Senate.

Representatives are meant to represent there districts, Senators are meant to represent there states.

[up] > Implying that Gerrymandering isn't a bi-partisan event.

edited 11th Nov '12 6:05:51 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39810: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:11:43 PM

[up]

I didnt say it wasnt. But I would point pout that given the latest trend from 2010 was looooots of republicans getting into office, their gerrymanders are the most current.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39811: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:13:52 PM

[up]

Well clearly the Democrats need to get better at it, its not the Republicans fault the Dems suck at rigging the system (I mean look at the job they did in Wisconsin)tongue.

edited 11th Nov '12 6:14:17 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39812: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:17:17 PM

[up]

wisconsin is interesting enough in that in the one election they cant gerrymander (the presidency), democrats won.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39813: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:17:56 PM

[up]

They won the Wisconsin Senate election as well.

edited 11th Nov '12 6:18:22 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39814: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:18:05 PM

Kostya was only referring to the House seats. A change to the House need not effect the Senate, where all states get two regardless to help even things out. I don't think we need to change that particular fact. (Except to maybe increase the number of Senate seats, but they'd all stay equal anyway.)

And as I said, there's a way to work it; each state gets its proportion of the population seats, but those seats are divvied up by percentages of the party instead of the population within the states.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39815: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:20:18 PM

[up]

You don't get it.

We would have Senators representing their State.

And the House Representatives representing their State.

We don't need two groups representing their State

edited 11th Nov '12 6:23:01 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39817: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:29:03 PM

[up]

Oh god, Petraeus resignation is already starting to generate conspiracy theories.

Bet you someone has already started blaming the Federal Reserve.

edited 11th Nov '12 6:29:20 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39818: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:29:49 PM

We already have two groups representing their states. And you know why? To Compromise between the need for representation and the fear that more heavily populated areas would outweigh the less populated areas.

You're sounding kind of dumb here, because very few people will want to change that. It's part of our system of checks and balances.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39819: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:32:37 PM

[up]

It is telling that high population areas tend to lean democratic and low population areas republican.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39820: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:34:29 PM

Can we please stop repeating that? We already know that here. And all it really says is that people in different areas have different concerns.

The extreme conservatism we've seen lately is the product of changing times and the old guard of folks trying to hold on in all the wrong ways.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#39821: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:34:38 PM

[up][up][up]

the fear that more heavily populated areas would outweigh the less populated areas.

Your proposed plan would give populated areas more power than less populated areas.

Cities would get far more representation than Suburbs and Rural areas.

And as this very thread has demonstrated, Urban and Rural people don't fully understand each other's concerns.

edited 11th Nov '12 6:38:56 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39822: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:39:47 PM

I don't think you're understanding Kostya's proposal here. "percentage of the vote" doesn't have anything to do with where that vote happens to live. It takes the whole number (of that particular state as I refined it) and apportions the seats to the parties depending on how many people voted for a particular party. Thus, which House seats go where depends on that. As I imagine it, the way seats are apportioned to the states would remain the same. It's how the states then gives out its available seats that would change.

Kostya said jack shit about the Senate, so the Senate would remain unchanged. This keeps in place the check and balance of ensuring representation regardless of how populous a state is.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#39823: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:41:50 PM

...Except, people don't vote for parties. They vote for candidates.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#39824: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:42:24 PM

It would give heavily populated areas more control because more people live in heavily populated areas than in less populated areas, not because those given areas are less populated, but just because that's what dynamics currently look like.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39825: Nov 11th 2012 at 6:43:55 PM

[up][up]Kostya's suggestion also requires a change to how part of the electoral process works. *shrug*

[up]It would come up about even in Texas, provided you got the people out to vote.

This is similar to how I've heard elections run in places like Finland and such, for example. It

edited 11th Nov '12 6:44:39 PM by AceofSpades


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