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Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39701: Nov 11th 2012 at 8:47:19 AM

They called climate change a "nebulous problem." Yeah, I stopped caring what they had to say after that. The rest just seems to be them ranting against liberals while saying "I'm not a neocon, honest. I just don't like the direction this country is heading."

As for the othering of Conservative women and LGBT individuals...well what do you want us to do? I sincerely feel they're foolishly voting against their own interests. I would think the same of any evangelist that voted for the Democrats.

LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#39702: Nov 11th 2012 at 8:49:10 AM

[up][up][up]that's why these people who think they can speak for you with all the secession crap... Need to go to some worse-off part of South America or Africa and STFU about who's holding whom back...

[up]And my goodwill for those holding back my nation as usual vanishes and is replaced with a hatred only saited by their immediate deportation, IMHO. Their brand of BS isn't going ot cut it anymore with how much of a failure this nation is becuase of them.

edited 11th Nov '12 8:51:35 AM by LostAnarchist

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39704: Nov 11th 2012 at 9:11:38 AM

[up]Yeah, already posted that. Also, lol@Gallup.

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#39705: Nov 11th 2012 at 9:17:20 AM

That blog post was trite. Nobody thinks you're homophobic/sexist/racist because you're not a Marxist. And conservatives don't want more "individual freedom" because that term is practically meaningless in a political context. The dichotomy is one between a greater focus on public sector/government (on the left) and private sector/corporations (on the right). That's not about freedom, but simply where you think power should be more vested. I really wish they'd just admit that they aren't these freedom fighters protecting the liberty of the individual, but people who simply place their trust in a different authoritarian system.

edited 11th Nov '12 9:18:19 AM by HilarityEnsues

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39706: Nov 11th 2012 at 9:17:32 AM

[up][up]

I think the biggest takeaway is that conservatives fare best in polls that ignore cellphones and the interwebs.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39707: Nov 11th 2012 at 9:19:39 AM

@chihuahua: Regarding that post, it's almost identical to someone claiming that they aren't a racist because they know a black guy. Meanwhile they own a business whose management consists entirely of white males.

It's entirely logical to say that, had Republicans managed to appeal more to black, Latino, and women voters, they would have won the election. What is then required is a factual analysis of why they don't appeal to said voters, and that's where these folks are missing the point.

You won't appeal to blacks if your party line is that they're a bunch of lazy moochers. You won't appeal to Latinos if your party line is that they (or their friends and family) need to go back to Mexico and stop taking American Jobs. You won't appeal to a majority of women voters when your party line is that they should be paid less, not have access to reproductive health, and that rape babies are a gift from God.

The GOP policy is actively repugnant to large swathes of American society. And for the record, I'm a married middle-class white guy who voted Democrat. Because I do not think that I should have privileged status in my country solely on the basis of what I look like. Not to mention that I support teaching science over religion in school, Keynesian economics, cuts in the military-industrial complex, and dealing with climate change.

What's mind-bendingly stupid is that, in a rational world, these would be conservative principles, not liberal ones.

edited 11th Nov '12 9:26:23 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39708: Nov 11th 2012 at 9:32:36 AM

[up]

This.

Yes. some blacks, gays, latinos, and women voted republican. That proves nothing. It does not mean the republican platform isnt really all that racist or hateful and the ones who voted demoicrat are stupid.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39709: Nov 11th 2012 at 9:34:00 AM

Arkasas: I know. It reminds me of the kids that swore up and down that Gallup was gospel and wouldn't look at anything else. I think it's time we stopped caring what they said.

Hilarity: Exactly. Somebody will be in charge in some fashion no matter what you do. Better it be an accountable government than a bunch of shady businessmen. This is the precise reason why Libertarians terrify me.

Fighteer: Well the Democrats are a center-right party in any sane nation. We've established this. The GOP is just a bunch of lunatic corporate facists, libertarians, and evangelists that somehow came together because of their universal hatred of Democrats.

LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#39710: Nov 11th 2012 at 10:25:53 AM

[up]The media's only being nice with calling the GOP right wing in any sense of the word, as far as I'm concerned.

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39711: Nov 11th 2012 at 11:19:40 AM

You know, this has all happened before. Hispanic-Americans will likely turn more conservative as they become better integrated into the economy- like other ethnic groups before them. That doesn't mean that hispanics will flip for the Republicans as a group, but it does hold out the promise that the Reps will be able to achieve some conservative in-roads into that community at some point in the future. That, in addition to their now core base among Americans of Scotch-Irish ancestry, will allow them to continue to win elections.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39712: Nov 11th 2012 at 11:31:44 AM

In regards to the secession petitions: you guys are taking this TOO FUCKING SERIOUSLY. These petitions can be created by anyone, have a ridiculously low number requirement, are being signed by people not even from that state, and have absolutely no legal power whatsoever. I'm pretty sure that the president won't even see this. And, most importantly, this petition has absolutely no legal power because it was started by some random citizen rather than someone in a place of significant power in Louisianna.

So please, let's stop talking about secession from the US like it's a thing in danger of happening. It's not. The people in charge know it can happen for a number of practical reasons. The barrier to leave is ridiculously high. And there's not enough people that would actually approve of this particular course of action.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39713: Nov 11th 2012 at 11:46:43 AM

[up]It still bothers me that people don't automatically see the problems that would come about due to secession.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#39714: Nov 11th 2012 at 11:47:24 AM

We don’t need to change to appeal to voters. We need voters and their mindsets to change.

Yes, someone has actually said this and no, she wasn't being sarcastic. Quoted on page 3 of this article.

Immediately reminded me of Bertolt Brecht's poem about the 1953 uprising in East Germany: 'But wouldn't it be more convenient if the government dissolved the people and elected a new one?'

edited 11th Nov '12 11:52:07 AM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39716: Nov 11th 2012 at 11:55:34 AM

Obama is secretly Batman? Who's the Joker, then?

[up]If they keep that up, then they really will become an irrelevant party. Now, I think there's enough smart people in the party to realize they need to change their message, at least superficially. The challenge for them is to get around party members who think like that quote right there.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#39717: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:00:27 PM

[up] Dunno. Michelle Bachmann?

"You can reply to this Message!"
MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#39718: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:01:28 PM

Yeah, there seem to be a few smart people among them. Take this guy named Frum, for instance, quoted in the same article:

'The federal government spends seven times as much money on people over 65 as it does on people under 19. The Republican base are the people who get the most from the federal government,' Frum said. 'You can’t think if you reject facts. You can’t refer to minority groups as mendicants or moochers simply because they want the economy to function. We need to insult fewer people.'

Now, that's more sense than I've grown to expect from U.S. Republicans.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#39719: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:03:54 PM

So Obama's the hero America needs, but not the one it deserves?

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#39720: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:07:21 PM

[up][up][up]Don't talk about the Joker like that!sad

Yeah its funny to see maniacs like Rush and Ingram commence the execution by circular firing squad of the GOP. I do hope they nominate someone like Santorum or a hardcore Tea Partier next time; then maybe they will get some sense pounded into before America becomes a de facto one party state federally.

edited 11th Nov '12 12:07:30 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39721: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:11:02 PM

From the article linked above: "...But which path to take for the GOP toward broader appeal — doubling down on a core economic and family values conservative message that transcends identity politics or polishing the party’s image by recruiting more women and minority candidates and adopting more moderate positions, particularly on immigration reform..."

My guess is the first one...

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39722: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:12:41 PM

@Obama is Batman: Actually he's Superman.

Ace of Spades: Honestly I think those people should just jump ship to the Democrats if they want to remain in power. As it stands now they'll probably be kicked out by radicals.

Midnight Rambler: Thank you! Ugh I wish people would realize this.

rmctagg 09: Now it makes even more sense.

[up][up]We'll probably never be a true one party state. At best we'll have the Democrats with majorities in everything while the GOP is slowly pushed out by the Libertarians or Greens.

edited 11th Nov '12 12:13:51 PM by Kostya

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#39723: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:17:33 PM

[up]There is also a possible schism within the Dems, should the GOP schism, as well. <shrugs> Quite a few current Dems are quite to the right, and if the "moderate" Republicans split from the more extreme elements, well... they might have more in common with them, than the Dem average and merge to reform the right-wing block. <shrugs>

It does look as though there's a decent chance for a political map shake-up, though. Maybe a 30%-40% chance. But, that's my gut talking.

edited 11th Nov '12 12:18:36 PM by Euodiachloris

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39724: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:21:45 PM

Well either way they wouldn't be the insane GOP that we currently have so I wouldn't mind them existing. The more liberal Dems could also join with the Greens if they wanted to.

edited 11th Nov '12 12:22:14 PM by Kostya

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39725: Nov 11th 2012 at 12:23:52 PM

It does seem like the way the parties are set up in the United States are preventing us from not paying any attention to the fringe, and forcing us to treat them as a viable political alternative.

It seems like it would be a better idea if the "RINOS" and "blue dogs" split off and formed their own party, and then we could have our progressives and our libertarians, and the tea-partiers can just kind of... I don't know. Yell and screech all they want but not as a majority political platform.


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