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CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
Sharknado Warning
#39326: Nov 9th 2012 at 5:32:03 AM

No. Immigration is also a major Political Issue in Europe especially Britain, too.

Probably even moreso in France. Where the third party in importance has views on Immigrations that make the staunchest anti-immigration GOP member look like he's advocating taking down the borders to facilitate multiculturalism.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#39327: Nov 9th 2012 at 5:42:48 AM

[up] I like multiculturalism.

the porous border isnt the issue. The issue is theres so few ways to immigrate legally that your choices tend to be "stay in mexico for years upon years waiting to go to america maybe. " or "sneak across now and feed your family"

And while that is true, this still doesn't address the fact that we simply can't have a million plus people who've submitted to no background check of any kind, who are documented in no way, just show up and 'poof!' they're citizens.

There has to be a solution here, and the President's "Tada! You're citizens now!" ain't a solution.

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39328: Nov 9th 2012 at 5:46:04 AM

[up]

I'd think a good solution would be making it so more than a few thousand visas are allowed each year.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#39329: Nov 9th 2012 at 5:56:35 AM

@ Cobra:

It's the sort of issue you'd get Single Issue Wonks, something like Abortion in the US. Immigration is very Serious Business.

edited 9th Nov '12 5:57:00 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#39330: Nov 9th 2012 at 5:56:36 AM

[up][up]How?

edited 9th Nov '12 5:57:10 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#39331: Nov 9th 2012 at 5:57:16 AM

[up]Retroactive allocation numbers a year? Allow those (and dependants) who have been living in the US for years to apply for cards as if they were just about to travel at a large number (and using their conduct and what paper trail as exists in the US as basis — also, application of some common sense: to stay off the radar, they'll have some fraud, etc. to their names)?

It'd mean some might get deported (due to violent crime and/or other non-radar avoiding crime), but... it's a start, right? The numbers set would have to be high for a good 10 years or so, though. The issue of families is thorny, but... there are ways. smile

edited 9th Nov '12 6:00:14 AM by Euodiachloris

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#39332: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:02:36 AM

Look, truth be told, if you're here, you're here. Deportation isn't any kind of solution. But what I'd like to see is an immediate strengthening of immigration laws from here on out.

You're here, okay, welcome home. You think you'll just show up and depend on liberal charity, you get deported. Plain and simple.

Otherwise, you might as well have no immigration policy.

It was an honor
Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#39333: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:11:07 AM

Which, and I'm a liberal, is basically the U.S. policy - immigration laws are barely enforced by the federal government and the laws that do exist do more to stop those who try to work within the system. Our immigration system is outdated and in need of reformation.

edited 9th Nov '12 6:11:35 AM by Completion

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#39334: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:12:00 AM

[up][up] and [up]Fair dos: but... the mess that is currently the immigration system needs sorting. (Heck, this goes for most places.) Having something that is understandable, streamlined and fit-for-purpose wouldn't kill anybody. tongue And, with reasonable targets: draconian limits on quotas only encourages illegal immigration.

edited 9th Nov '12 6:12:43 AM by Euodiachloris

Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#39335: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:14:26 AM

But how would you control the costs associated with immigration? Legal immigrants in the U.S. receive welfare for a year. An increase in immigration would substantially tax that system worse than it already is.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#39336: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:15:33 AM

[up]But, allowing them to actually work without going totally black-market garners tax dollars. tongue

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#39337: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:21:36 AM

For those of you who don't think Obama will cut taxes, watch this video. Go to the 4:41 minute mark and watch until 4:56.

I'll quote him. "So, tonight, I'm asking Democrats and Republicans to simplify the system. Get rid of the loopholes. Level the playing field. Use the savings to lower the corporate taxes for the first time in 25 years without adding to the deficit."

If you know history, you'll know that tax cuts add to the deficit anyway, so the rest of the stuff he's saying doesn't matter so much as what he wants to do - cut taxes.

edited 9th Nov '12 6:22:41 AM by Sledgesaul

Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#39338: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:28:13 AM

If I learned anything from economics, it was that lowering corporate tax rates do generally help out. It's the capital gains tax and income tax that don't do anything (unless they're at extreme levels).

Not talking about contributing to deficit, but rather as a form of economic stimulus.

edited 9th Nov '12 6:29:34 AM by Completion

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#39339: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:29:59 AM

Clinton raised taxes, and we had a booming economy.

Bush cut taxes, and it contributed to the recession.

Completion oldtimeytropey from Space Since: Apr, 2012
oldtimeytropey
#39340: Nov 9th 2012 at 6:41:47 AM

Raising taxes can certainly contribute to economic growth if it's reinvested wisely through economic stimulus funds.

Cutting taxes did not contribute the recession. They contributed to the deficit. The recession was started by a particularly large bubble.

edited 9th Nov '12 6:42:13 AM by Completion

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#39341: Nov 9th 2012 at 7:14:09 AM

Whatever the case, this is a tried and failed method of stimulating the economy.

Even Reagan and Bush Sr. raised taxes in their time, and the economy did relatively well by then.

Chalkos Sidequest Proliferator from The Internets Since: Oct, 2010
Sidequest Proliferator
#39342: Nov 9th 2012 at 7:24:41 AM

"cutting taxes" is meaningless. There are many kinds of taxes and each of them affects the economy in different ways.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39343: Nov 9th 2012 at 7:29:39 AM

Try telling that to Republicans. Their "Taxes BAD" mantra doesn't distinguish between what kind, although they seem mostly concerned about taxes on wealthy folks, i.e., "Job Creators".

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#39344: Nov 9th 2012 at 7:39:43 AM

"cutting taxes" is meaningless. There are many kinds of taxes and each of them affects the economy in different ways.

THANK YOU

Anyway, I wonder if the Republicans will become more immigration-friendly as the economy improves. One of the driving forces behind the recent spate of xenophobia—albeit a misconception—is the economic recession, which some people blamed on immigrants (especially illegal ones) taking jobs that U.S. citizens could otherwise get. The whole "illegals using my tax money" thing is actually a sideshow, IMO.

(They completely neglect what kinds of jobs they're talking about.)

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#39345: Nov 9th 2012 at 7:49:37 AM

Easy solution to immigration: go after the industries that make lots of money hiring illegal migrant workers rather than Americans who would demand a minimum wage. Watch incentive to illegally migrate to the states drop.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#39346: Nov 9th 2012 at 7:54:12 AM

[up] Part of the problem is that most illegal immigrants are farm workers, which is subject to a different set of labor laws. They don't have to pay minimum wage, overtime, etc, and it's all legal. It stems from a time when paying farm hands minimum wage would have driven the family farm out of business.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#39347: Nov 9th 2012 at 8:13:53 AM

Will the Bush tax cuts ever expire?

If nothing happens by the end of the year, they will. Given that Obama's already extended the Bush tax cuts, I feel they're here to stay.

edited 9th Nov '12 8:14:05 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39348: Nov 9th 2012 at 8:26:37 AM

We need to get taxes on the wealthy back to where they were in Clinton's era, or better yet, pre-Reagan. The label you put on this is irrelevant. We need to eliminate the capital gains break and instate a tax on financial transactions. This would help reduce the deficit and fund programs to boost consumer demand with an eye on restoring full employment in the next 3-4 years.

What we don't want is a heavy-handed cut on spending while at the same time raising taxes on the middle class. That's a recipe for a double-dip recession. Krugman's column today discusses how Obama needs to hold the line on this and not allow Republicans to get away with holding the economy hostage.

edited 9th Nov '12 8:30:01 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#39349: Nov 9th 2012 at 8:29:46 AM

[up] Problem is that I doubt Congress is that merciful. Politicians, first and foremost, care for themselves - they represent themselves more than anything else. What they'll do to get more money, they'll do, and right now, they're getting that money from corporations, lobbyists, bankers and defense contractors, none of whom want to help people making less than them.

edited 9th Nov '12 8:30:17 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39350: Nov 9th 2012 at 8:31:44 AM

Well, the good news is that Wall Street pretty much abandoned the Democrats this election, which means that the Dems are no longer beholden to them. So Obama can be as "mean" to them as he wants. That's one of the mandates that was delivered on Tuesday. The question is whether Obama will make use of it.

edited 9th Nov '12 8:32:39 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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