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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Swish Long Live the King Since: Jan, 2001
Long Live the King
#39051: Nov 8th 2012 at 11:01:23 AM

Who pushed the Patriot Act with 9/11 as a scapegoat?

Who re-approved the Patriot Act in 2009 with no scapegoat in question?

Who added the detention clause to NDAA?

The Democrats. As it got out of committee with the clause in the bill. The idea that Republicans demanded the clause be added before they'd vote for it is, again, disingenuous...

There is equal blame to be handed out for both issues. Claiming otherwise is, for all intents and purposes, lying to make the side you prefer look better.

And yes. It could be said that some Democrats are against the measures. But it can equally be said that some Republicans are against the measures...

edited 8th Nov '12 11:05:15 AM by Swish

CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
Sharknado Warning
#39052: Nov 8th 2012 at 11:02:58 AM

Where did all that Super PAC money go, where did it come from and what is happening to the unspent cash, if any? Anyone have a clue as to what the answers to those questions are?

Came from Corporations, Unions, Rich Business Folks who couldn't contribute /face limits to their contribution to candidates. Super PACs allow them to bypass such hurdles.

It went to political ads supporting or attacking certain candidates.

Unlikely there's much unspent cash, since the PACs knew when the election was, so they could budget accordingly to make sure the spent all by election day. Presumably, the Super PACs can keep the left over for the next set of elections...

edited 8th Nov '12 11:04:16 AM by CobraPrime

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#39053: Nov 8th 2012 at 11:08:59 AM

Tepublicans? tongue Ehem...

I'll reiterate that in foreign policy, Democrats have lately been similarly "at fault" as Republicans if you can call it that. NDAA was the fault of Democrats but not of the president. Patriot Act, I suppose you can say Democrats have inherited the blame. There's a reason why US, normally ranking high in democracy and living standards, ranks really low in privacy.

Swish Long Live the King Since: Jan, 2001
Long Live the King
#39054: Nov 8th 2012 at 11:14:36 AM

[up]Yeah... I fixed that. It was a funny, and rather apt, typo. tongue

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#39055: Nov 8th 2012 at 11:20:04 AM

Sigh... the tax compromise made me look up Grover Norquist again. Why can't he present the electoral news in a less biased manner?

Grover Norquist: Why 2012 Election Was Actually Good For GOP (VIDEO)

"When the dust settled at the end of the Election Day, the status quo that we got was the status quo that followed the 2010 election, which was very good for the Republicans," Norquist told host Alicia Menendez, citing Republican control of the House and similar levels of Republicans in the Senate, despite Democratic control of the White House.

"The Republicans are as strong as they were after 2010, and that was considered a devastating body blow to the Obama administration and Democratic hopes," he said. "What's been crushing for Republicans is that they had hopes of taking the Senate and the presidency. That didn't happen."

He should realize that while statistics didn't change, the attitude sure has.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#39056: Nov 8th 2012 at 12:26:59 PM

Oh, Karl Rove. You're soooooo silly. Please go back to the hole you came from, and stop bothering us.

Chalkos Sidequest Proliferator from The Internets Since: Oct, 2010
Sidequest Proliferator
#39057: Nov 8th 2012 at 12:40:57 PM

Ugh. What a cynical attempt to redefine "voter suppression" away from what Republicans have actually been trying to do. He's defining "voter suppression" as "convincing the voters that the other guy isn't worth voting for." Which is... sort of half of what you're supposed to do in elections.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39058: Nov 8th 2012 at 12:45:44 PM

So Karl rove has lost his mind because he just wasted 300 million dollars. woo.

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39059: Nov 8th 2012 at 12:56:43 PM

So do we have a result on what not limiting campaign contributions because money is "speech" does to campaigns? What I'm seeing here is that people who spent and spent and spent did not get results...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39060: Nov 8th 2012 at 12:57:40 PM

[up][up][up][up]Karl Rove is a sore loser. [up]Indeed. I'm wondering if this will dissuade people from dumping cash into SuperPACs in 2014 and 2016.

edited 8th Nov '12 12:57:53 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#39061: Nov 8th 2012 at 12:58:03 PM

Here is the thing on the Patriot Act. Yes, it was renewed, but not all of it. Only a few provision were renewed. We could argue about if those are the worse one, but I think that is point less.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39062: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:01:07 PM

Return on investment isnt measured soley on whether your man gets elected. Other members of the party, who did get elected, will remember your support for one of their own, and grant a corresponding level of access.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#39063: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:01:08 PM

[up][up][up]

I think itsd more that Karl, as well as other pundits, literally did believe the insanity they were spewing and now are trying desperately to reconcile hard facts with a crashing worldview.

[up]

Thats true, but judging by projections, multiple PACS like crosroads succeeded in getting maybe 1 candidate elected. period.

edited 8th Nov '12 1:01:47 PM by Midgetsnowman

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#39064: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:05:46 PM

It would be nice, if ironic, if this ruling of "money as speech" makes it so money does not matter as much in politics and we can stop spending so damn much.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#39065: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:07:42 PM

I'm reminded of a bit on QI about game theory. All else being equal, two corporations spending equal advertising dollars will cancel eachother out. So when the US government banned tobacco advertising, the tobacco companies had a lot of profit.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39066: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:10:40 PM

There's something that really pisses me off about this report on Social Security. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but I've read up on the issue, and as far as I can tell the "firewall" between Social Security funds and general revenue is almost entirely illusory.

That is, if Social Security runs a deficit, it is made up for out of general revenue. The "trust fund" is a number that exists only on paper and it has no real meaning. So why is everyone so paranoid about SS running out of money? As long as it draws from general revenue, it is literally impossible for that to happen unless the entire government runs out of money. Am I wrong?


Edit: Romney concedes Florida, meaning that once the results are certified, Obama will have won 332-206. Apparently I was incorrect, or incorrectly informed: the margin for an automatic recount is 0.5%, not 1%; Obama is up by a bit over 0.6%.

edited 8th Nov '12 1:17:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39067: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:37:30 PM

@Fighteer: Where did you get the idea that the Trust Fund was illusory? The fund includes the payroll taxes collected, and government bonds that were purchased during surplus years. All that is projected to run out at some point in the future. Technically, I suppose Congress has the authority to put more money in there, either by increasing payroll taxes, or from some other source. There is no real plan to do either at the moment.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39068: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:40:22 PM

So. If Florida goes for Obama, which it probably will, Nate Silver will have gotten 50 states and 31 Senate races correct. I'd say that's pretty good proof that 538 is the superior poll aggregator.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39069: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:41:28 PM

Too bad he'll probably still be accused of being a liberal shill.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#39070: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:42:27 PM

Mostly because Republicans are running on a "No New Taxes Ever" platform.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39071: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:49:39 PM

By the logic of those Republicans, everyone who regularly posts here with the exception of Grizzly is a liberal shill. Including those who are Republicans.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#39072: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:52:10 PM

Only in Republican-land can someone correctly predicting the outcome of an election be a shill for the winning team.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#39073: Nov 8th 2012 at 1:56:41 PM

While the trust fund will expire, social security is a definite benefits plan. The absence of the trust fund doesn't mean the government's liability to pay social security recipients just goes away, it just means the funds need to come from general revenues.

occono from Ireland. Since: Apr, 2009

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