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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38576: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:47:10 AM

Yeah. The problem is quite simply, the republicans hatred of non-whites is going to doom them. If they dont soften up on key policies like immigration and science denial, the non-WASP vote is going to bury them permanently.

[up]

apparently the logic was "Barry O is Like santa claus to americans. They expect him to give them free stuff they dont deserve"]

You know. Completely Ignoring who Saint Nicholas was and why he gave things to people.

edited 7th Nov '12 11:48:29 AM by Midgetsnowman

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#38577: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:48:22 AM

Republicans refuse to accept that minorities exist.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38578: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:49:23 AM

aha. here it is.

"“Conservatism, in my humble opinion, did not lose last night. It’s just very difficult to beat Santa Claus. It is practically impossible to beat Santa Claus. People are not going to vote against Santa Claus, especially if the alternative is being your own Santa Claus,” "

1: Rush, your opinion is never humble.

2: apparently Rush believes most of america wants everything handed to them on a platter.

edited 7th Nov '12 11:50:00 AM by Midgetsnowman

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#38579: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:50:00 AM

Just once do I want to see a conservative to admit they lost.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38580: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:50:03 AM

One thing I also read is that pundits are citing the GOP's attempts at voter disenfranchisement as one of the key things triggering their dramatic loss in Pennsylvania, as voters went to the polls in outrage.

[up] Admitting that they lost fair and square would be admitting that their policies are fundamentally disliked by Americans, ergo it might mean they'd have to accept being wrong.

edited 7th Nov '12 11:50:51 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#38581: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:50:04 AM

The point is, however, that the GOP faces a hard choice: appeal to its extreme elements to keep them from deserting and therefore lose all appeal to the rest of the country, or try to claw its way back to the middle and thereby alienate the extremes. If they continue their march to the extreme right, I think they will not win the Senate or the White House in the foreseeable future, and the country will see the schism between red and blue continue to widen.

It really is up to the GOP to mend this, if they wish to even try.

I'm not sure I follow you, Fighteer. If you're correct, and the Right can only gain Congress or the White House by abandoning its political priorities ... then what's the point of having Congress or the White House? The private movie theatre? The cafeteria's bean soup?

[up][up]Conservatives lost yesterday. We good?

edited 7th Nov '12 11:51:58 AM by Jhimmibhob

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#38582: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:51:34 AM

It's at the very least time for a hard discussion about political priorities.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38583: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:52:18 AM

@Jhim: I'm saying that social conservative policies are obsolete in this country and need to be dumped once and for all. If Republicans want to pose themselves as conservatives in the classical sense, they have to abandon their extremists. Otherwise the middle will continue to vote blue and all their standing on principle will amount to so much hot air.

It wouldn't hurt for them to admit to anthropogenic climate change and give up the idiotic fight against evolution, either. You know, move out of the 18th century.

Edit:

then what's the point of having Congress or the White House?
Well, if the Republican Party could become true conservatives instead of regressives, then we'd be able to have a national conversation about solutions to real problems, like income inequality, climate change, immigration, health care, and the like. As it stands you have one party saying, "Let's try to figure this stuff out," and the other party sticking its fingers in its ears and shouting, "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU ABORTION GAY MARRIAGE [caveman grunts]!"

edited 7th Nov '12 11:59:13 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38584: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:53:54 AM

Eh, I'm in the "it's all about demographics" camp. The right has taken a very hard stance regarding immigration, and that's going to cost them a shit load of the hispanic vote, and the hispanic vote is growning.

Democracy is about the people. The interests of more and more of the people are not the interests of the Republican party. The Republican party sticking to its principles is inherently undemocratic and their being elected out of office is inherently democratic.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38585: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:56:32 AM

@Jhimm: if they stick to their priorities instead of evolving with the times, then theyll do what happens to every party that falls out of relevancy. Die on the vine.

Its happened before. The Republican party itself came about to fill a power vacuum mere years before the Cvil War when another party's relevancy ended.

edited 7th Nov '12 11:57:27 AM by Midgetsnowman

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#38586: Nov 7th 2012 at 11:58:43 AM

And then someone else will take their spot, as per the cycle of American politics.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#38587: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:00:40 PM

On voting third party some pages back: cutewithoutthe:

I'm disappointed in anyone who votes for a third party right now. It might not matter in this election, but what if this was another election? What if Obama lost? Would you seriously want Romney up there?
If this was another election, or it wasn't cut-and-dry in their states they would vote differently. Voting third party now doesn't mean you don't follow politics and vote for the lesser evil when your vote will actually matter.

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
GigglesMcYummy wobbledewopple wob woppl from Ohio Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
wobbledewopple wob woppl
#38588: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:07:04 PM

Republicans refuse to accept that minorities exist.
That's what I don't like about the Republican canidates, and that's coming from someone who for the most part doesn't care about politics. People like Romney and Bush mainly only had the best interest for people like them, while Obama's policies, or the ones he at least wants to establish, have the best interest of all kinds of different people and families.

My PM box is always open to anyone who wants to talk/vent.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38589: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:10:10 PM

In short. last night pretty much proved what has been supposed for a while. If you rely on a campaign based on cynicism and hatred, dont be surprised when america wakes up cranky and screaming for your blood at the polls.

Americans may be uneducated sometimes, but they arent stupid.

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#38590: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:15:09 PM

I sort of agree with Jhim, oddly enough.

Yes, it would make sense for Republicans to become more moderate and sensible if they were rational actors determined to win elections. Honestly though, I'm not sure that's their primary motivation anymore. The regressionists are about "principle" - clownish, backwards principles, but principles nonetheless. Above all, they are hellbent on turning back time and reversing social change. If they can't win and they can't do that, they'll do the next best thing - hang on for dear life. As long as things like climate change remain an issue of contention, their ideas aren't dead yet.

So I'm really not surprised that they're going further to the right.

Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#38591: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:16:33 PM

I'm saying that social conservative policies are obsolete in this country and need to be dumped once and for all. If Republicans want to pose themselves as conservatives in the classical sense, they have to abandon their extremists. Otherwise the middle will continue to vote blue and all their standing on principle will amount to so much hot air.

I'm afraid my question stands: if you're correct, then there's no point in pleasing the middle. At best, the Right's rewards would be a clutch of empty political offices, manned by neutered time-servers sworn to their constituents to do little or nothing worth the doing. If the choices are as stark as you paint them, there are worse and less honorable things than what Midgetsnowman calls "dying on the vine."

However, you might be a tad overconfident in the "arrow of progress." History's more cyclical than many of us like to imagine; there are numerous examples of latitudinarian societies that rediscovered moral rigor, or even what the Left might call downright troglodytism. Today's Cavaliers may sire tomorrow's Roundheads. Athens sometimes is succeeded by Constantinople. As a certain hard-to-see gent once put it: as often as not the world moves "not like an arrow, but a boomerang."

edited 7th Nov '12 12:18:06 PM by Jhimmibhob

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38592: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:16:46 PM

[up][up]

well, then theyre doomed to lose a lot of elections

[up]

That may be true, Jhim, but the overall progress of society is always leftward. Theres setbacks and cycles, sure. But far right rhetoric always eventually dies.

and claiming this si some stand on principle is silly. a mere 20 years ago the republican stance on principle was far different than their ideals today. They evolved to the point they are in. either they evolve again or they reach an evolutionary dead-end.

edited 7th Nov '12 12:21:53 PM by Midgetsnowman

truteal animation elitist from the great southern land Since: Sep, 2009
animation elitist
#38593: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:26:52 PM

The only thing Republicans can do now is hope that the Economy/Libya worsens so they can have a chance in 2016

http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/ http://sagan4.com/forum/index.php
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#38594: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:28:25 PM

That may be true, Jhim, but the overall progress of society is always leftward. Theres setbacks and cycles, sure. But far right rhetoric always eventually dies.

Not true. In communist (or claimed communist) countries, being more "liberalized" is actually more right; for example China stepping away from Maoism.

Anyway, I'm quite excited to see Elizabeth Warren (remembering her eloquent speech from DNC) as well as a new independent Angus King in the January Congress.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#38595: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:29:37 PM

I wonder if Jhimm is envisioning a future wherein gay people, non-fundamentalist Christians, non-Christians, black people, Hispanics, women, scientists who believe in climate change and people living in urban areas all shrink in political representation.

Because I don't see THAT being cyclical.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38596: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:30:04 PM

I'm afraid my question stands: if you're correct, then there's no point in pleasing the middle.

If that's the attitude they take, then the Republicans will continue to lose elections until they are no longer relevant to American politics. Of course, given the two party system, they will continue to look relevant for a long time even if they are not, but I wonder what the political environment would start to look like if Democrats routinely win 60% of the popular vote and 90% of the electoral vote.

I see only a spectacular failure of liberal policies setting things back, and given my economic and political beliefs, I don't expect that to happen. I do know that the Right expects it to happen and is actively abetting it, in the hopes that they can play the "told you so" card for a cycle or two. But we have ample historical records of prosperity under liberal governments, so the facts are not on their side.

edited 7th Nov '12 12:33:31 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38597: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:31:35 PM

[up]

This. Standing on principles instead of embracing new ideals as needed even as the majority of the world stops believing in your principles dooms you to the fate of parties like the American Whig party.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#38598: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:32:01 PM

@Midget: Limbaugh was right, you know, though not for the reason that he thinks he is. Conservatism did not lose. It won. Now the center will move even further right as the Republican Party continues to define Obama as a liberal. Of course, conservatism would have won if Romney won, as well. This was a lose-lose election. Either the hyper-conservative candidate wins, and the country heads further right, or the moderate-conservative candidate wins, and he gets defined as a liberal, so the country heads further right. There was no win for the left in this election.

@Triv: Liberalism in China is sending it further left, socially, just not economically.

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#38599: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:33:52 PM

@MS: Oh, they certainly are doomed in the long run if demographics keep changing and they stick to their crazy guns. That's the best part. tongue

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38600: Nov 7th 2012 at 12:34:22 PM

[up][up]

Erm, considering pretty much every major excess of the party failed miserably, I'd say their attempts to redefine conservative as even firther right killed them.

[up]

it made me want to laugh so bad at my sister's best friend who is barely middle class when she started whining that now all her money was going to disappear. I refrained because she's a nice person. Just a stupid person.

edited 7th Nov '12 12:35:27 PM by Midgetsnowman


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