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Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#38526: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:16:24 AM

[up][up]

Do no not fucking stereotype this country.

That is the Stereotype: see Eagleland, Type B.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:16:45 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#38527: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:17:04 AM

There's a reasonable chance that socially, the GOP will veer rightward from here. The party's libertarians and social moderates had their trial run with an near-ideal avatar of those concepts. The Romney campaign couldn’t have been a more perfect test case for whether an anodyne fiscal conservatism, stripped of (or at least palpably embarrassed by) any social or religious concerns, can suffice to win over the ballyhooed "middle." Turns out it can’t. It wasn’t enough. And the Republican base might decide that the party can lose as easily with social & moral principles as without them.

In other words: if the Romney campaign, of all things, inspires fears of theocracy, then there’s no real point in assuaging such fears. No reason not to spray the building for libertarians, take out the socially latitudinarian trash, sow the ground with salt, and mix any metaphors left unmixed. If the 2012 GOP campaign looked like an actual pursuit of the "culture wars" to anyone, those observers have gone too long without seeing an actual culture war. Might as well really brown some Dockers. Deus lo vult! All right, I (semi-)kid: "damn the torpedoes, " perhaps.

The more that the Republicans veer right, the more they will lose, assuming the dems don't move left in the same manner.

I'll vote Republican when we get a fiscal conservative who isn't a private sector shill running. Romney looked like he got pumped out of some factory that makes the same rich, white, strong chinned men in suits that the reps always put up for election.

Can we just clone ourselves a younger Bush Sr? You know, a man with integrity and actual trains of thought beyond subversive party politics that lie to the people?

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#38528: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:18:58 AM

[up] Honestly, if Huntsman had gotten the nomination, Obama probably would have lost.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#38529: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:20:34 AM

[up][up]You can clone him, but good luck getting the current set of activists to support him. tongue Let them do their soul-searching, and then see how it'd go, eh? <hugs>

[up]Possibly. See above. tongue

edited 7th Nov '12 9:21:10 AM by Euodiachloris

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#38530: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:21:51 AM

[up][up]But he lost the primary. Isn't this the whole problem for Reps. Anyone crazy enough to win the Rep primary is unable to win the general election.

[down]That will be a tough sell to the base. It's hard to deprogram a bunch of people you just spent the last 4-8 years brainwashing.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:24:24 AM by nightwyrm_zero

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#38531: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:22:14 AM

Honestly. I think the republicans only way out of this mess now is to soften their stance on immigrants and black people severely. which forces them to soften a lot of other stances too to not piss off selfsame groups.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:22:25 AM by Midgetsnowman

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#38532: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:22:56 AM

@Greenmantle: And I'm asking them to not stereotype the US as mostly having been full of backwards-ass type 2 eaglelanders. I'm not seeing what point your making.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:23:11 AM by Ekuran

Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#38533: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:25:59 AM

The more that the Republicans veer right, the more they will lose, assuming the dems don't move left in the same manner.

I'll vote Republican when we get a fiscal conservative who isn't a private sector shill running. Romney looked like he got pumped out of some factory that makes the same rich, white, strong chinned men in suits that the reps always put up for election.

It beggars the imagination that any fiscally conservative candidate—Romney or otherwise—wouldn't be portrayed as a baby-munching corporatist plutocrat of some sort; and yesterday's election suggests that unless the political facts change drastically, the charge would stick. In light of that, winning might not be on the table, period, in the short-to-medium term. And as the saying has it, "might as well get hanged for a sheep as for a goat."

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#38534: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:26:29 AM

BRILLIANT suggestion on the Economist article linked earlier:

In Romney’s last commercial, set in the near future, a bunch of Chinese people are listening to a lecture and feeling self-satisfied. Americans went back on their core constitutional values in the Obama Administration, and now Americans work for us! Brilliant! I thought. We can outsource the management of American companies to lower paid Chinese executives, and use the savings either for lower prices for consumers or higher dividends for investors! In the latter case, it might even help with the public employee pension disaster. And they wouldn’t have to be Chinese! The executives from virtually any country in the world, with the possible exception of Russian oligarchs, would provide savings!
I died laughing. Let's get some low-paid Chinese or Indian executives up in here working for a hundredth of what homegrown American executives would charge.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#38535: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:29:03 AM

Let's get some low-paid Chinese or Indian executives up in here working for a hundredth of what homegrown American executives would charge.

ROFLOLOL. Win.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38536: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:29:11 AM

It beggars the imagination that any fiscally conservative candidate—Romney or otherwise—wouldn't be portrayed as a baby-munching corporatist plutocrat of some sort; and yesterday's election suggests that unless the political facts change drastically, the charge would stick. In light of that, winning might not be on the table, period, in the short-to-medium term. And as the saying has it, "might as well get hanged for a sheep as for a goat."
If you're going to play that game, it beggars the imagination that any moderate to slightly conservative Democratic candidate wouldn't be portrayed by the right as the bastard lovechild of Stalin and Mao. If an actual liberal were to get nominated, the GOP would probably start a second Civil War.

We've said this many times, but Obama practically stole Reagan's playbook, and he was caught cheating off of Clinton-era Newt Gingrich's test booklet. If you call this man a commie liberal, you have gone so far off the deep end of the reality pool that you're beyond saving.

The process you are describing is that of a party committing suicide.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:32:45 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#38537: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:31:03 AM

[up][up][up]Best economic policy I've ever heard of.[tup]

pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#38538: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:31:46 AM

[up]x5 So, you're saying that if the Republicans sink far enough into unelectable territory, they'll simply keep lurching further and further towards the ideals of their current fringe because they won't bother worrying about even a token appeal to any voters outside of the hardcore base?

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#38539: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:32:26 AM

I'm almost tempted to start up a dead pool (no, not him, nor the movie) on which ambassador will wind up killed next, now that Obama has four more years to continue on his trainwreck of a foreign policy, where aside from treaty ratification it's pretty much all on him.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:33:08 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38540: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:33:08 AM

So, anything crazy happen since last night? Is Allen West still in congress?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38541: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:34:35 AM

@Nohbody: Is that Joking Mode? Because Obama's foreign policy has been stellar by all accounts, unless you're a hardcore liberal (or Libertarian) in that regard, and they have no meaningful representation at the ballot box.

@Tomu: Nothing earthshattering that I have seen so far. A lot of hand-wringing from the right but otherwise it's been fairly quiet. There isn't even any point in contesting the results considering that Romney can't win even if a recount should miraculously hand him Ohio, Virginia, and Florida.

Edit: Bachmann seems to be barely clinging to a lead in her House race, and Allen West is barely losing.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:37:36 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#38542: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:36:44 AM

I think I'm more excited about Californians voting for an increase in taxes to fund education than about Obama winning.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#38543: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:43:52 AM

And CNN just recognized Nate Silver.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#38544: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:45:16 AM

If you're going to play that game, it beggars the imagination that any moderate to slightly conservative Democratic candidate wouldn't be portrayed by the right as the bastard lovechild of Stalin and Mao.

Fair enough: but though such rhetoric has always fired up the bases on both sides, the voters in the middle generally aren't stupid enough to buy such unlikely charges. If they actually started swallowing whole the narrative you describe, you might reasonably conclude there's some generalized intellectual rot at work; and that rather than appealing to such mooks, the Left would do better to keep its powder dry, wait for the political facts on the ground to change, and try not to get any of the crazy on them. That's not so much "suicide" as it is weathering out a political silly season as best one can. Mutatis mutandis, that's all I'm pondering.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:46:38 AM by Jhimmibhob

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#38545: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:47:12 AM

You know, if the Republicans could ever field a secular populist, they would sweep the country.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38546: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:51:14 AM

Correction: If Republicans could ever nominate a secular populist.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#38547: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:53:02 AM

the voters in the middle generally aren't stupid enough to buy such unlikely charges. If they actually started swallowing whole the narrative you describe, you might reasonably conclude there's some generalized intellectual rot at work

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38548: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:53:36 AM

And CNN just recognized Nate Silver.
Really? I hope there's an article link somewhere for that. I want to read/watch it.

@Jhim: You do realize that, by most accounts, Romney's failure to resonate with moderates is precisely that he comes across as a corporatist who is utterly disconnected from the issues of the middle class, right? Romney's main appeal to these voters was that they didn't see a dramatic economic turnaround under Obama, so they might be willing to try a different brand.

edited 7th Nov '12 9:56:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#38549: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:54:08 AM

A secular populist republican Presidential candidate would be fucking over the rest of their party on principle, i.e. never even make it past the primaries.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38550: Nov 7th 2012 at 9:55:39 AM

BTW: How'd Florida eventually go?


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