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BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#37001: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:12:25 AM

Well those are his spiritual views.

Let's be fair. I won't go at anyone's beliefs regarding Jesus (definitely not in this thread) but that thing about Native Americans being descended from a lost tribe of Israel - you can't call that a "spiritual belief." That's a fact claim that can be checked, and indeed it has been, by comparing the DNA of Jews (who can trace their ancestry to at least somewhere in the Middle East) and Native Americans. It's simply false. Now, I'm not sure if Romney believes that bit of his religious group's doctrine but if he does, that alone should be enough for most people to not vote for him. Fact claims are checked by science and you don't get to dispute them by tradition or religion.

"Spiritual" and other such issues that aren't solved by science (at least yet,) well, I'll let people treat those as matters of opinion. Science, however, is not a matter of opinion. (See also: evolution and climate change.)

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#37002: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:13:25 AM

Seeing that clip, I'm thinking Herman Cain should be listed as an example of The Social Darwinist.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#37003: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:14:34 AM

[up][up]

Isn't the exact cause of climate change under debate?

Regardless, if Romney doesn't impose his beliefs on anyone I don't see the harm.

A man should not face discrimination for his creed.

edited 6th Nov '12 12:16:55 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#37004: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:19:00 AM

[up] It really isn't. Conservatives just like to play up the idea that scientists aren't sure because it makes their views look more legitimate.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#37005: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:20:11 AM

[up][up]Not really. It's pretty well known it's man made and it's cars and cows and, if it gets horrible enough, plumes of methane out of the atlantic.

Also, [up]virtually all the climate change denialism comes from the US.

edited 6th Nov '12 12:20:22 AM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#37006: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:23:00 AM

[up]Only if were counting only the Western World

In 2007–2008 Gallup Polls surveyed 127 countries. Over a third of the world's population was unaware of global warming, with people in developing countries less aware than those in developed, and those in Africa the least aware. Of those aware, Latin America leads in belief that temperature changes are a result of human activities while Africa, parts of Asia and the Middle East, and a few countries from the Former Soviet Union lead in the opposite belief.[179] In the Western world, opinions over the concept and the appropriate responses are divided. Nick Pidgeon of Cardiff University said that "results show the different stages of engagement about global warming on each side of the Atlantic", adding, "The debate in Europe is about what action needs to be taken, while many in the US still debate whether climate change is happening."[180][181] A 2010 poll by the Office of National Statistics found that 75% of UK respondents were at least "fairly convinced" that the world's climate is changing, compared to 87% in a similar survey in 2006.[182] A January 2011 ICM poll in the UK found 83% of respondents viewed climate change as a current or imminent threat, while 14% said it was no threat. Opinion was unchanged from an August 2009 poll asking the same question, though there had been a slight polarisation of opposing views.[183]

edited 6th Nov '12 12:24:15 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#37007: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:23:44 AM

[up][up] The US come, sometimes, across as terribly anti-science or all its high tech...

edited 6th Nov '12 12:24:08 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#37008: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:27:26 AM

@Best Of: Not really. That means that there's 80% of the population that confesses to a particular religion. And people usually want a representative who shares their values. And religion really is a value over here.

If atheism is a deal-breaker for a significant portion of our voting base, on both sides of the liberal-conservative fence (worse for conservatives, but there's plenty of politically-liberal people who are nonetheless quite religious individuals), you're going to have a massively uphill battle getting elected.

[up] We have a large chunk who are most assuredly anti-science and anti-intellectual, though not usually anti-tech. This is the country where one of our political parties got a lot of street cred by calling themselves "Know-Nothings."

edited 6th Nov '12 12:28:48 AM by Ramidel

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#37009: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:28:45 AM

You can look up the exact figures if you like, but almost all (easily over 95% IIRC of) climate scientist accept that climate change is happening, and an overwhelming majority of them believe it's caused in part by the actions of mankind.

Regardless, if Romney doesn't impose his beliefs on anyone I don't see the harm.

Well if he's gullible enough to be convinced by his religion, it's entirely possible that he'd spend your tax money on homeopathy or something. Or made policy decisions based on horoscopes.

Food for thought, if you ask me, though obviously I know that not all religious people are that stupid. I won't assume that anyone is an idiot until they've said something really stupid, and I don't think I've heard Romney actually assert very many of his church's doctrines, though he did say he believes that stuff about Jesus reigning from Jerusalem and Missouri. If he does believe the origin story of Native Americans, though, I won't put it past him to belive in alien abductions or other such tripe, too.

[up]The secular voting bloc, which is currently emerging (or trying to emerge) in America as a political lobby corresponding in influence to its size (which puts it well past the Jewish lobby to pick just one comparison) is firmly behind Obama in this election.

edited 6th Nov '12 12:30:08 AM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#37010: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:30:09 AM

This is kinda why I prefer Biden. He noted that he cottons to the catholic stance on abortion, but thinks that other people's views take precedence.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#37011: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:31:22 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah, thats something I really can't get my head around. People who are essentially "proud to be stupid"

edited 6th Nov '12 12:31:43 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#37012: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:32:15 AM

[up][up][up] Yeah. That doesn't mean that all liberals are secularist enough to vote for an atheist.

And that's only partly because our definition of "liberal" is the European definition of "Christian Democrat."

edited 6th Nov '12 12:32:27 AM by Ramidel

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#37013: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:32:31 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]

Please the Jewish Voting Block is all powerful. You all just don't realize it yet.

edited 6th Nov '12 12:33:24 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#37014: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:32:34 AM

Obama is very religious, too, but fortunately he doesn't seem to put his religion in his politics anywhere near as much as he does in his speeches.

BTW, I don't think Romney is an idiot just because of his religious beliefs. What he's said about the economy is at least equally condemning.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#37015: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:34:01 AM

I'd focus more on Romney's history as a corporate raider at Bain Capital with regards to any (increasingly unlikely) governance, than his religious belief. Specifically "Buy up, inflate, gut, and profit".

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#37016: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:34:51 AM

@Deviant: Don't confuse (even satirically) the Jewish voting bloc with the Israel lobby. The two sides usually support opposite sides.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#37017: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:46:05 AM

[up][up]Him as the CEO of the USA, PLC with that record? Darkly amusing, if it wasn't so scary.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#37018: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:47:27 AM

[up]

Who would he sell the USA to? Who'd want it?

Keep Rolling On
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#37019: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:48:54 AM

[up][up]

Have you seen this picture of him back when he worked at Bain Capital? (He's the guy in the center).

He looks like Gordon Gecko, and there are wads of money falling out of his shirt.

[up]

Israel?

edited 6th Nov '12 12:50:33 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
entropy13 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#37020: Nov 6th 2012 at 12:56:57 AM

[up][up]The Aliens? [lol]
Have anyone checked the latest from XKCD?
EDIT: Oh it's Poll Watching, the one I'm talking about is Congress. A big infographic on its composition.

edited 6th Nov '12 12:58:15 AM by entropy13

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#37021: Nov 6th 2012 at 1:11:16 AM

Republicans may lose Texas House supermajority

Tiny northeast town casts first White House votes

edited 6th Nov '12 1:54:23 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#37022: Nov 6th 2012 at 3:18:20 AM

So this is it!

I'm SO EXCITED!

Arizona GOP seeks to retain control of Legislature

edited 6th Nov '12 3:19:58 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#37023: Nov 6th 2012 at 3:44:30 AM

All right. Taking bets now. The real question, the only question:

How many pages will this thread grow in the next 24 hours?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#37024: Nov 6th 2012 at 3:50:59 AM

My estimate: ~20+ Pages*

.

Keep Rolling On
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#37025: Nov 6th 2012 at 3:55:11 AM

As I am fond of saying, not even the worst bookies in New Vegas and Reno would give you odds on that kind of thing. Fool's game.


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