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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36801: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:18:48 PM

[up][up]Again, your second line? That's totally fucking paranoid.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36802: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:19:47 PM

[up][up]What, you prefer this?

[up] They're using it on foreigners already. What makes you think they won't do the same for their own citizens? I mean, Roosevelt detained Japanese Americans purely for their heritage. Abraham Lincoln suspended habeus corpus. George Bush signed the Patriot Act and sponsored Gitmo.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:21:34 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#36803: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:21:39 PM

Serocco, you're like a Left-Wing version of a Right-Wing Militia Fanatic...

edited 5th Nov '12 2:28:40 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36804: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:23:37 PM

Nope.

No data. Looks flashy, little substance there. It buzzes words off. Bring me Nate Silver style analysis. All I got from that is Obama wants to streamline the Social Welfare programs and wants to reform the fucking insane US Tax Code.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:25:35 PM by PotatoesRock

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36805: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:24:56 PM

Roosevelt was in a time where nationalism was much stronger, as well as racialist tendencies. Lincoln was more than 100 years ago. Bush was a patsy. None of these lead to the direct, outright slaughter of civilians. You are suggesting that the President of the united states would willingly authorize the bombing of US citizens.

Serrocco, what the actual fuck are you on?

edited 5th Nov '12 2:26:15 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36806: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:26:18 PM

[up][up]How about way back, when the whole debt-reduction negotiations broke down within Washington. At the time, the details of the deal, which Obama was desperately pushing for, included "$1.2 trillion in government cuts, reductions in cost-of-living raises on Social Security recipients and around $250 billion in cuts from Medicare by raising the eligibility age."

[up] What about Lynching?

edited 5th Nov '12 2:30:47 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36807: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:27:51 PM

Again, trying to compromise so that the US economy would not immediately crash.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#36808: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:29:28 PM

[up][up]

Do you believe compromise, in any way or form, is unacceptable?

Keep Rolling On
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36809: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:30:07 PM

"Compromise" is a fancy way to say "Let's pretend it's an issue so we can have an excuse to rob the public blind."

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36810: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:31:16 PM

I don't really care about the Sequester Deal. It's meant to be a doomsday scenario to force the Republicans give up one of their two golden calves, jacking up the Military Budgets or making the Bush Tax Cuts permanent.

I consider that fucking brilliant on Obama's part.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36811: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:33:21 PM

[up] You're not paying attention. Let me spell it out for you, slowly and calmly.

Republicans were demanding big tax cuts for the rich, keeping tax benefits for the rich and lower income rates, thereby insuring that the burden of any higher revenue would fall on the non-rich. Obama, the man who campaigned for change, agreed to a debt reduction plan that would exempt the wealthy from any sacrifice, and indeed protect them from the possibility that their tax rates would rise when the Bush tax cuts expire.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:35:04 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36812: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:33:59 PM

It's not a pretend issue to the Republicans. I'm sorry but Obama has to compromise with them in some way. Again, if you really hate these things work to get a Democratic supermajority so the GOP can't hold the purse strings hostage on so many things.

[up]Because despite how much it sickens me Obama is their president too and he has to be at least somewhat centrist. Again, if you hate compromising so much vote out the GOP. They are the root of the problem.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:35:19 PM by Kostya

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#36813: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:34:12 PM

Look, Serocco. You are making yourself look just as paranoid as anyone on the right is. You say Obama's been particularly bad, and bring up many points. Assuming you are correct, what could we as voters even do about it? The first alternative would be to vote Romney, except that he would be arguably worse than Obama on those exact issues you mention. The second alternative is to vote for a third-party, except that a third-party will not win this election nor any election in the foreseeable future, because too many people are happy with both the Republicans and the Democrats.

So then, as voters, what do you expect us to actually do? Unless you can proof that Romney would be better on these issues or that a third-party can actually win, Obama for all his faults is the best choice we have that could actually be elected.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36814: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:36:48 PM

"Compromise" is a fancy way to say "Let's pretend it's an issue so we can have an excuse to rob the public blind."

And you lost me here. That's where you're an inch from wearing a tinfoil hat, brozinski.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36815: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:36:52 PM

It's hard to try to change things when someone has a metaphorical knife to your proverbial throat. Which is Exactly what the republicans had.

It's also exactly what they had when they got the bush tax cuts reauthorized. They said "if we don't get the tax cuts reauthorized, then we're going to let the unemployment benefits for the nation expire."

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36816: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:37:17 PM

Gary Johnson wants to end the wars, close the military bases and bring the troops home. Rocky Anderson wants campaign finance reform - more specifically, a way to limit, if not abolish corporate donations. Jill Stein has an eco-friendly platform that would pay wonders for us, especially in light of the constant oil drilling and the Keystone Pipeline.

All three of them have ballot access to over 270 Electoral College delegates. The only reason people think of them as wasted votes is because everyone else is focusing on Romney and Obama. You can argue about whether or not they'll be able to do anything while in office, but the fact remains that a vote for the third party is a vote on principle, not politics.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:39:50 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#36817: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:39:29 PM

yes welcome to the two party system the system this nation was built around

I would prefer another system, but honestly I don't see it changing any time soon. Switching from having two mainstream parties to multiple other parties has problems with it too.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36818: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:39:54 PM

None of them matter unless the Libretarians, Constitutionalists or the Greens get some reps in Congress anyways.

You can argue about whether or not they'll be able to do anything while in office, but the fact remains that a vote for the third party is a vote on principle, not politics.
I'll vote on principle when whether or not I stay in my home is on the line, mkay. Until then, I'll go with pragmatism first.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:41:39 PM by PotatoesRock

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#36819: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:41:12 PM

Well, there's Bernie Sanders.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36820: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:41:27 PM

[up][up]Yes. What do you expect a 3rd party to do once they're in office? They are not the automatic cure. I'd much rather if Obama had a bunch of Green congressmen leading him around instead of Jill Stein being lead around by Democrats.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:41:34 PM by Kostya

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#36821: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:43:01 PM

@serocco: I'd prefer gaming the system and sort of winning to standing on principle and outright losing.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#36822: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:43:48 PM

Everyone is focusing on Romney and Obama because they actually have a chance of getting elected... Gary Johnson, Rocky Anderson, and Jill Stein, quite frankly, don't, and you need to understand that. Hell, if it weren't for their presidential runs, there would be no third-parties on my ballot at all. Hell, some positions are lucky to even have both a Democrat and a Republican running in my state. I simply can't vote for a third-party where it would matter most... in Congress.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:47:13 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#36823: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:45:28 PM

[up]

This.

I mean, I respect that some people truly do want to vote purely on principle. I just would rather ignore principle in favor of a vague semi-victory to voting Jill Stein and essentially handing Romney an even larger assured majority in missouri,

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36824: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:45:43 PM

Gary Johnson has candidate ballot access in enough states to total 515 possible electoral votes.

Jill Stein has candidate ballot access in enough states to total 447 possible electoral votes.

Virgil Goode has candidate ballot access in enough states to total 369 possible electoral votes.

Rocky Anderson has candidate ballot access in enough states to total 271 possible electoral votes.

edited 5th Nov '12 2:46:12 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36825: Nov 5th 2012 at 2:47:03 PM

Access. But not chance of actually getting them. Obama and Romney both have access in every state.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

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