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Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36751: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:01:41 PM

Oh, and if it was political suicide, tell that to Tom Coburn, who voted against the bill and remains alive and well.

False equivalency. One Republican Congressman voting against the NDAA means nothing. A Democratic President vetoing the NDAA? That's the end of Obama and the Democratic Party, not to mention useless considering the veto would most likely be overriden.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36752: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:02:33 PM

Or perhaps, maybe, just maybe, he thought he'd be able to close it because he thought, I don't know, maybe congress wouldn't block every single damn thing he tried to pass?

And he likely hasn't tried again because he knows it'll just be blocked again and again.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:04:20 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#36753: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:04:52 PM

Sure, the Republicans blocked the Gitmo stuff, but Obama hasn't done anything regarding it since. He just dropped it after one try.

You speak as if Obama had infinite chances to do this, and had nothing else on his plate to worry about.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36754: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:05:25 PM

Doesn't matter what the reasons are. He's institutionalizing indefinite detentions on American citizens, which you know damn-well that Romney will abuse to no end.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:05:54 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#36755: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:09:11 PM

He's institutionalizing indefinite detentions on American citizens

If Obama, by not getting Gitmo closed, is "institutionalizing" indefinite detentions of American citizens, then I, by sleeping late, am "institutionalizing" nocturnal behavior.

Only because I haven't fixed it yet.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36756: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:09:17 PM

The NDAA was a "must-pass bill" in the same way the Patriot Act was a "must-pass bill".
Yes they both are, because unless you have a safe seat, they mean automatic political suicide. All your opponent has to do is run endless ads saying you didn't vote for it, and bring up "our spouses and children would have had no body armor or arms to protect themselves with", and hello newcomer.

Again, still promised to shut down Gitmo. Did not do so. If he wasn't able to do so anyway, why say so other than to get elected?
Because he wanted to, but he got fucked over by Southern/Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans going "NOPE". Remember, the Democrats had a lot of southern holdovers who might as well have (R) next to their name, when Obama came into the presidency.

And without a Democratic held house and senate super majority that contains almost 0 Blue Dogs, Gitmo can't be shut down.

Sure, the Republicans blocked the Gitmo stuff, but Obama hasn't done anything regarding it since. He just dropped it after one try.
Probably because he's been more concerned with trying to repair the economy as much as possible, with regards to how much the Government can help. Especially with the Tea Party surge screwing things up as much as it did.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:10:02 PM by PotatoesRock

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#36757: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:12:44 PM

Plus keep in mind even if he did bring it up again the Senate would get filibuster and the House would not vote on it. They would still be focus on repealing ACA.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36758: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:18:14 PM

Serocco you seem to be one of these people that can't tell the difference between an official breaking a promise out of malice or lack of caring and an official breaking a promise out of pragmatism. They are two very different things and the latter is not automatically bad.

Obama has made a good faith effort to do a lot of things. He hasn't succeeded in many but the important thing is that he tried to do these things to the best of his ability. Now if you want to change this I suggest you work at getting him a majority in congress rather than blame him for things that were entirely out of his control.

As for NDAA it baffles me that you cannot see that he had absolutely no choice. Do you really think he'd ever get reelected if he didn't pass that? I'll answer, he wouldn't. Now you could say you don't want him to compromise if it means accepting tyrannical things and I would like a world like that but consider this. If Obama doesn't pass it that's it, he's out and he can no longer work for this nation. But if he does pass it he has a chance at reelection which gives him four more years to improve in other areas.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:18:46 PM by Kostya

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#36759: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:20:08 PM

Serocco, it's because of liberals like you that we get fucked over by republicans. You get angry with liberal democrats who actually have the same damn views you have when they can't pass laws you want because of conservative/republican bullshit, and then decide not to vote for them or vote for no chance third parties who don't know when to lie to the manipulated mass of people who don't know they're being fucked over by republicans.

If every single liberal like you just had some fucking patience, conservatives would be kicked out by the shitload and we wouldn't be in such a fucked up state we're in right now.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:20:40 PM by Ekuran

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#36760: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:22:02 PM

Serocco, you'd damn well better hope Obama wins, then, so Romney doesn't have a chance to get into office and screw things up.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:22:36 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#36761: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:23:32 PM

Lets calm down. Serocco was giving her opinion. It's fine that she feel Obama didn't try harder, but we must not fight each other to get a point across.

I honestly can't wait for tomorrow.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:24:11 PM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36762: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:27:00 PM

Harvey: I was talking about the NDAA regarding indefinite detentions. Not Gitmo.

Again, his reasons for signing the NDAA bill won't man much when someone you or I know ends up imprisoned without trial or due process. Even if you believe he won't use it, didn't want to use it, or had no choice in the matter.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#36763: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:28:33 PM

@Serocco: And, again, Obama is less likely to do that than Romney, and no Republican president would have vetoed NDAA. So you're kind of stuck with the lesser of two evils, here.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:28:40 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36764: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:30:49 PM

Obama is only "less likely" to do that because of him claiming that he won't use it. Even if he wins re-election, his successors will abuse it, because he's given them free reign to do so.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:31:27 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36765: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:31:13 PM

What proof do you have that Obama will do this? Frankly I find that notion that you're willing to let Romney win just to spite Obama for having the intelligence to stay in the game ridiculous. Even if he vetoed it like you want do you realize it would just be overridden? Then we'd be without a President that cares about people and we'd have this terrible piece of legislation on the books. I'll take one evil instead of two which is what your idea would create.

edit: True but by voting for Obama and supporting Democrats you're making it easier for them to prevent Republicans from getting into office and abusing it. Romney and the rest of the primary candidates seem to be the types that would use this compared to Clinton, Biden, or whoever succeeds Obama.

edited 5th Nov '12 1:32:38 PM by Kostya

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#36766: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:32:34 PM

Not to mention that Obama used signing statements to say that certain parts of the NDAA wouldn't be used. If he holds to them than it isn't a problem.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36767: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:33:39 PM

Only because there's no way for him to get rid of it. The Supreme Court ruled Line Item Vetoes that would of allowed Obama to delete it was unconstitutional in the 90s.

What do you expect him to do about it? Veto it? The House and Senate would just repass it with a veto-proof majority.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36768: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:35:06 PM

[up]I'd also like to say again that, in addition to the second, Obama would lose his seat to Romney, a man that is far more likely to abuse this.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36769: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:38:13 PM

Obama's authorizing drone strikes on funerals over in Pakistan.

Knowing that, are you really certain that Obama ''won't stoop lower than that?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36770: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:40:28 PM

Yes. Romney would go to full out ground war.

Which, if I remember right, you think is only just as bad as drone strikes.

It's much worse.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36771: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:40:53 PM

Unfortunately I'm not certain but that doesn't mean I think Romney getting in over Obama is preferable because I find him using it a far more likely possibility.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36772: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:42:40 PM

Personally, I don't give two shits about Pakistan, the place is a fucking hell hole even before we got there. I'm more concerned about the Democrats staying in power so that the Republicans don't completely rape and destroy Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, which is my more immediate concern.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#36773: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:45:44 PM

[up] This. Being a single-issue wonk over drone strikes in Pakistan strikes me as absurdly myopic. You are literally sawing off your nose to spite your face here.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#36774: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:47:48 PM

The RNC, and multiple other Romney aligned organizations have called my house at least 50 times already. I'm not exaggerating... hell, it could easily be way more than that.

It makes sense. I live with Elderly grandparents, with a grandfather who usually votes Republican, but goddamn still. How many fucking times are they going to goddamn call?!

OR SEND GODDAMN MAIL.

I just hope Virginia goes blue. Because by the look of things, Romney has taken the state back. I see Romney signs everywhere.

NO ONE EVEN WANTS HIM AS PRESIDENT. They just want Obama gone! Despite him being the best thing that's happened in a while.

America, we need reform. America, we need change.

America, grow up.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#36775: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:48:26 PM

Alternatively, we need a democratic president to get some more liberal justices on the Supreme Court so that part of the NDAA can be struck down there.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

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