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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

#36726: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:15:15 PM

It matters because if Obama wins a la Bush Jr. he won't be able to claim to have a mandate from the people for his agenda, like he did the first two years of his term before the '10 debacle.

<><
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#36727: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:15:38 PM

Except that it does matter. The more they can hype up the idea that it's close, the more people vote on every side. The more that people are empowered and the better off the country as a whole is. It doesn't really matter if the vote is close or not. It's in the vested interest of democracy to make it seem that way because that's what overcomes apathy. And it makes people think that their vote matters.

Therefore, there are only upsides to it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#36728: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:17:40 PM

Is Pennsylvania really in play or is Romney making the same last minute push that Mc Cain attempted? You would think he would try starting earlier if he thought he could at least make it close.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#36729: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:18:50 PM

Smart money says Pennsylvania is going to stay blue. That doesn't mean I'm not voting, though!

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36730: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:25:28 PM

@Serrocco: Obama is up in the five most recent polls of Virginia, 538 has him at 1.7 polling average. Florida is dicier, two ties, one Romney, one Obama, and one Romney outlier.

Yeah, Romney's got virtually no chance in Pennsylvania. He's just trying to get a few more lifeboats for his sinking ship.

#36731: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:26:38 PM

The betting markets have Pennsylvania at 80% Obama, 20% Romney. It's a longshot, but not entirely out of play.

<><
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#36732: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:29:29 PM

Nate Silver most recently had Pennsylvania at 99%. He's got a near-perfect track record.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36733: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:31:55 PM

Did Silver pick Florida for Romney?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#36734: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:32:11 PM

Haha no, he's gonna lose Pennsylvania. Non-biased sources have Obama with at least a 90% chance of victory.

Edit: Fighteer, why'd you ninja me? Not cool, man.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:33:09 PM by Ekuran

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#36735: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:33:04 PM

Paul Krugman quoted Stephen Colbert in his column this week, with respect to Hurricane Sandy. I love it when two of my favorite media personalities join forces, even symbolically.

Well, there's obviously confirmation bias at work. Republicans want to prove that government just doesn't work so they dismantle government infrastructure and because of that, prove themselves right. Meanwhile, Democrats want to prove that government can work well, build up government infrastructure and because of that, prove themselves right. The real conclusion that should be drawn is this:

Government does not work in the hands of the Republicans. If you want government to actually work, vote Democrat.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36736: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:36:06 PM

If you're idealistic, then the Republicans are pulling a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy on government by being the way they are now, and have been for decades.

If you're cynical, then the Republicans are genuinely malicious hypocrites that enjoy abusing power, with the Democrats following suit because they get paid by the same guys.

In any case, if you vote Republican, you're screwed, but they'd admit it. If you vote Democrat, you're still screwed, but people don't talk about it as much (Keystone Pipeline, NDAA, anyone?)

edited 5th Nov '12 12:37:15 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#36737: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:42:08 PM

As usual, Serocco, you're focusing on the negative aspects of what the Democrats and Republicans do while in office and ignoring the positive. I suppose that Obamacare, Wall Street reform, ending the war in Iraq, setting a timeline for Afghanistan withdrawal, killing Osama bin Laden, a successful (if too small) stimulus package, saving the U.S. auto industry, repealing DADT, etc., simply don't count in your book?

Oh, and restoring FEMA so it can deal successfully with a major east coast weather disaster.

If you're going to beat up on Obama for his shortcomings, at least credit him with his successes, for the sake of fairness.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:45:15 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36738: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:43:36 PM

(Keystone Pipeline)
Didn't Obama basically say "I'll look at it in 2013 and not a moment before"? I'm pretty sure that's code for "mkay, no."

NDAA
Voting against the National Defense Authorization Act is an automatic career ender. I thought this was went over before. Let's call it what it is "The Congressional Budget Approval for the US Military".

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#36739: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:46:52 PM

Isn't one of the most important prerequisite of doing something well is that you believe you can do it well. People who don't believe they can do a job well or don't think that the job is good or useful or important have no business applying for that job.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:47:26 PM by nightwyrm_zero

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#36740: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:48:29 PM

[up]This sort of law that you can't vote against or delay is also known as "must-pass" bill, and they are usually excellent Trojan horses for any shady subsidy and Bridge To Nowhere anywhere.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:48:47 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36741: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:48:56 PM

Wall Street reform will never get implemented in the same way it was with Roosevelt. It's a watered down, bureaucratic bill that lightly grazes on Wall Street, championed as "reform". That's number one.

Number two - Obama also said that he would've shut down Gitmo. He did not. You trust him with regards to the Keystone Pipeline, when he probably only said that to save his re-election?

Number three - So, you support the idea of the military holding indefinite detentions on fellow citizens? Oh, and if it was political suicide, tell that to Tom Coburn, who voted against the bill and remains alive and well.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:51:16 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#36742: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:53:05 PM

Gitmo isn't just the Prez's authority. The folks in Congress also made up all sort of fantasy stories to keep it open.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36743: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:54:23 PM

Still promised to shut down Gitmo. Did not do so.

Whether it's under his authority or not, he still did not live up to his campaign promise.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#36744: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:54:55 PM

1) Watered down and blocked because of Republicans.

2) Congress barred Obama from transferring any detainees from Gitmo. Don't blame him for Congress basically going "Don't dump them in my backyard."

3) That's a complete fucking strawman.

If you promised to get your kid a Wii, but your partner held the strings of the bank account and said "No", then Yes, that's breaking a promise, but No, it is not your fault.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:56:21 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#36745: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:55:25 PM

So, you support the idea of the military holding indefinite detentions on fellow citizens?
Nope. But it's a must pass bill. Tom Coburn got away with it because there's an R next to his name.

Still promised to shut down Gitmo. Did not do so.
The president is not a magical elf dictator and cannot do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:56:38 PM by PotatoesRock

Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#36746: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:55:55 PM

Reading up on the ballot questions for Virginia this year; can anybody suss out potential gotchas in Question 1, below?

Shall Section 11 of Article I (Bill of Rights) of the Constitution of Virginia be amended (i) to require that eminent domain only be exercised where the property taken or damaged is for public use and, except for utilities or the elimination of a public nuisance, not where the primary use is for private gain, private benefit, private enterprise, increasing jobs, increasing tax revenue, or economic development; (ii) to define what is included in just compensation for such taking or damaging of property; and (iii) to prohibit the taking or damaging of more private property than is necessary for the public use?

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#36748: Nov 5th 2012 at 12:56:50 PM

[up][up]increasing jobs, increasing tax revenue, or economic development;?

edited 5th Nov '12 12:57:08 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#36749: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:00:08 PM

[up] It's a common story for a local government to seize, say, private houses, then turn the land over to have a mall or factory built, under the justification of improving the local economy.

Also, man, voter turnout in Virginia tomorrow is depressing, just look at the results tongue

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#36750: Nov 5th 2012 at 1:00:47 PM

The NDAA was a "must-pass bill" in the same way the Patriot Act was a "must-pass bill".

Bernie Sanders is an Independent. He voted against it. He's still around.

Again, still promised to shut down Gitmo. Did not do so. If he wasn't able to do so anyway, why say so other than to get elected? Unless it's the Grand Bargain, I'm not taking anything he says seriously anymore, because actions speak louder than words.

Sure, the Republicans blocked the Gitmo stuff, but Obama hasn't done anything regarding it since. He just dropped it after one try.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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